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Thread: Will driving polluting cars ever really become socially unacceptable

  1. #21
    Oddly something I've been mulling over myself recently too.

    I'm changing my daily, for my usage pattern I have an occasional need to carry 5-6 passengers, I have an occasional need to pull 1.5 to 2 tonnes and I have an occasional need to drive in fields.

    So to tick those boxes I'm looking at smaller (it's a relative term) 7 seater SUVs, replacing an outlander with maybe a santa fe, or sorento.

    But I've also been having impure boxy, english made thoughts. An 08 discovery (for the "cheap", pre emissions tax dont you know) could be bought, taxed, fed and watered for a good few years for the price of a 13/14 korean.

    Leaving aside the "land rover? are you mad????" argument, because it's moot with fools like me who have to come back for more punishment every few years, I've actually for the first time in my life been asking myself if it's environmentally responsible thing to do.


    The new car option doesnt even come into the equation, zero emissions either, so the cars already exist, it's purely down to the extra diesel burnt. part of me thinks the difference is so marginal as to not matter a toss, or that we have a couple of acres of forestry so I can produce all the CO2 I want, but if I you take the butterfly flapping its wings to the extreme then less punters for used discoveries hurts residuals which increases ownership costs of first time buyers which encourages a switch to cleaner alternatives so even though I'm making a tiny difference if we all make tiny differences they would all add up.

    And I could change my lifestyle to reduce the need for such a vehicle too.




    But I'm kindof thinking of one last spin of the wheel too, the landrover itch is very hard to cure.

    ugh I dont know

  2. #22

    Talking

    I work near Dublin city, my wife works in the city centre.
    We don't live near the city or have the luxury of being able to E scooter, cycle around or drive an E.V. daily.

    Most of the people I work with are in the same boat.
    Believe me I don't want to commute, it's very expensive to ruin a planet. I wish there was an alternative.

    But Government policies pushed a lot of people to live far away from work, whilst their buddies profited.
    Now that well has dried up, they are trying to charge me for ruining a planet.
    It wasn't me, and I didn't profit from it.

    There are no bus routes, trains or alternate public transport structures for us to use.
    I don't see any being offered in the near future.
    So all this talk of removing cars from the city to me is pie in the sky.

    It's nice if you can pop out of your apartment and hop on the E scooter or your bike and toddle over to work, a lot of us can't.

    I only ever get compliments on my planet ruining 3.6l Diesel Rangie, no climate hate at all.
    Does anyone else remember the dire Ice age is coming warnings in the late 80's?
    Last edited by Browns lane; 09-10-2019 at 12:40 PM.

  3. #23
    I think looking at cars to save the planet is too narrow of a view.

    Cut out buying stuff in pointless packaging, recycle as much as you can, buy local as much as possible, and have one less kid.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochey View Post
    I work in the city centre in a tech company populated mostly with millenial snowflakes who don't drive, have no interest in driving and certainly frown on the likes of me who has an interest in turning fossil fuels into happiness and tyres into smoke. I find it rather entertaining actually... especially when they pack up their reusable cutlery and head to the airport most weekends.... I guess phenomenal amounts of Jet A-1 that is consumed in Dublin airport is magical unicorn dust that does nothing to harm the planet....

    So to me that generation not having an interest in cars is a step towards a cleaner Ireland, that and the fact the new communist regime says I can no longer use a plastic straw. But we use reusable shopping bags, we recycle, use biodegradable packaging but not because we want to but because we are taxed to do so. So as an individual I've done my bit.

    One chap is eagerly awaiting his new Tesla and he is a hero however when quized on it, by me, it'll take 16 years to be carbon neutral as it is being driven across the US to get it to Europe quicker. I asked a snowflake would they buy a used 10 year old phone? Well that's what that Tesla will be in 10 years time, not 16!

    Dublin city centre should be car free, or congestion charged at the very least. It's a ballache of a place to drive in anyway why people want to is beyond me but speeding up the buses in the city would certainly make it slightly more attractive to use public transport. Again a simple step that would have a benefit and an immediate impact.

    Another €2 on a tank of fuel doesn't achieve anything other than hurt those on middle and low incomes.

    So the hate, yeah it'll get worse, the masses will go hybrid or electric, good for them, more diesel for me!
    Spare a thought for the large number of millenials that don't fit the stereotype and still have to listen to old farts talk about how things were better in the good old days.

    Can't eat my smashed avo on sourdough with a single origin oat milk flat white in peace!

  5. #25
    I think it already is in places, I've seen photos online of diesel SUVs and even campervans with windows smashed and "You're killing the planet" painted on them!

  6. #26
    People have never been logical thinkers, so I would assume at some point there will be a lot of finger pointing, spitting, nuisance making and even vandalism done to petrol and diesel cars at some point. It just will.

    I am hopeful that however, that will be far away from today.
    The average age of cars in Ireland more than 8 years old, so I think it will be 10 years or so before ICE cars will be noticeably scarce and visible on Irish roads.
    By then, however most of our cars will be classics by then, so maybe they will be appreciated as something unique. If they are not VW diesels.

    Then again, everyone is going overboard on electric cars, but so far I have seen any electric van or truck.
    "This is a non-contact sport but then so is ice hockey" - Roberto Giordanelli on Irish FIAT Punto racing but applies to all Irish racing..
    "Tailgaters have small dicks" - Me

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by hi-rev View Post
    People have never been logical thinkers, so I would assume at some point there will be a lot of finger pointing, spitting, nuisance making and even vandalism done to petrol and diesel cars at some point. It just will.

    I am hopeful that however, that will be far away from today.
    The average age of cars in Ireland more than 8 years old, so I think it will be 10 years or so before ICE cars will be noticeably scarce and visible on Irish roads.
    By then, however most of our cars will be classics by then, so maybe they will be appreciated as something unique. If they are not VW diesels.

    Then again, everyone is going overboard on electric cars, but so far I have seen any electric van or truck.
    Nissan env200. There are loads of them in London.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Browns lane View Post
    It's nice if you can pop out of your apartment and hop on the E scooter or your bike and toddle over to work, a lot of us can't.
    You can't because you've chosen not to. Much like I choose to not work in the city centre but if I did, I would be able to park and ride (which I'm sure you can also) or I could conceivably scoot down to the local train station and take it from there. Eventually it boils down to a societal decision if we need to accommodate everyone's choice no matter what it is or whether we should just say, sorry but you need to suck it up. There is nothing to worry about in Ireland of course because none of these things will happen in the foreseeable future. I do like the cities that are taking action on this kind of thing, though, and having experienced a few in the last while they're in fairness vastly superior to how Dublin is dealing with it with endless traffic jams and a pretty unpleasant urban environment as a result.
    I'm with the resistance

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by colm89 View Post
    , and have one less kid.

    I tried to send him back, they won't take him!

  10. #30
    Older diesel technologies don't emit less NOx/PM/Co2 than common rail direct injection.

    Even accounting for lifecycle emissions incl battery manufacturing and transportation, EVs win out.

    And nope, driving an older car in perpetuity isn't better for the environment than buying a new much more efficient one.





    I had a much better reply typed out but phpbb ate it

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