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Thread: Is there anything we can do to save our kind.

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelnut View Post
    That's the best quote I've read in a long time and it would make a brilliant slogan. You print it and I'll buy it (but don't put it on single-use plastic).
    What about a Hemp Stencil?

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by lyre61 View Post
    Hardly, been exploring this area for nearly twenty years and unless we do something you had better hope that Elon's rockets make it to Mars. Cause there is going to be nothing left here with staying for.

    Sent from my K10 using Tapatalk
    Do you eat Beef?

  3. #13
    Yeah, I know where you are going with this, and you were right it is a massive issue, from deforestation through to belching (that's worse than the farts) but we need to change everything.

    Sent from my K10 using Tapatalk

  4. #14
    No not every thing at all,
    If we declared war on farming and stopped producing beef which is loss making any way, and used the land for for bio energy instead of trying to bombard ordinary folk with lies so they buy new EVs.
    All of the comparisons for new EV are made using new ICE vehicles.
    So, telling fred who does 6000 miles a year and has had his toyota Corrola for 6 years with no intention to change, to run along to his credit union and buy a new Green EV is going to cause way more devastation.

    Its absolutly insane what is being discussed here,
    And dont get me wrong, im excited by new technology and cant wait to see where it goes but jesus, this is like Telling the Jews that Hitler is a pacifist.
    Its wrong on so many levels.
    Last edited by Rennwagen; 18-06-2019 at 08:41 PM.

  5. #15
    Yes it is worrying. It wouldn't take much more expense to push me out of my beloved barges.
    Turbo R's and Range Rovers for everyone.

  6. #16
    Not that I understand how animals can be bad for the climate but if so, it is probably more important for this island to keep agriculture going vs some of us driving V8’s because we like how they sound.
    I'm with the resistance

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennwagen View Post
    Electric cars are not Green
    Careful, this can backfire woefully.

    There are many people who agree, but from the opposite perspective. The next target is personal car ownership at all.

    EVs aren't green if they're just like for like replacements of ICE cars, following the same stupid commuting patterns of gridlock driven by poor spatial planning, lack of public transport, and artificially high property prices.

    Really, no-one stops to think if it's cars are the problem or pretty much our entire economic/social system that depends on constant "growth". Are cars in cities a problem or are our cities messed up to begin with?

    It's kinda pointless doing all your boring day to day travel by car down dreary motorways and stuck in traffic of some depressing monday morning. It's a waste of time and petrol. It's a hell of a lot more sustainable to use a conventional car, even a for leisure on the weekend than to drive Leaf every single damn day from some commuter town. It kind says it all that the Tesla heartland of San Francisco is one of the most stupidly laid out cities I've ever seen, it's like Dublin on steroids and crack and is the land of the 3 hour commute and mental rents.

    That subtlety gets lots on people, they want convenient narratives on either side of this, e.g. some in the car enthusiast community stick their head in the sand and minimize real environmental issues, while on the other side Ireland is increasingly filled with do-gooders who want to feel like they're doing the right thing and hop on the EVs are good, ICEs are universally bad groupthink bandwagon rather than any rational debate such as whether a country with no real say or control in the direction any of this tech takes is wise to bet everything on a single propulsion technology, whether the cost to benefit ratio of pushing ICE cars off the road is worth it

    Cost isn't just money, it's also opportunity and social cost. On a simple money level, every penny you spend subsidizing the private purchase of EVs and their infrastructure is less money you have to spend on even more efficient mass transit. Dublin still doesn't have concrete movement on building a metro and the plans are already scaled back. Mass transit also benefits a far wider range of people than the middle class buying new cars and getting a fuzzy feeling that they're saving the planet by purchase of a consumer product, with cobalt probably mined by child workers.

    The other issue is social cost - people are so focused on the negative impacts of the car, that they forget the positives, the freedom and on an almost literal level, the social mobility its given to people. EVs are still very expensive new at the bottom end. A Renault Zoe is 24K new I believe (JPW might correct me), and that's after rebates. A Dacia Sandero starts at 10k, and even the more upmarket small ICEs are still cheaper. This has a knock on effect on the supply of affordable used cars. It's kinda hilarious how people are vilified for using cars and not public transport, yet the best served neighborhoods are more likely to be well to do, often on the southside. Restricting access to personal transport that works on your schedule can limit peoples access to employment, there's a real risk of further widening the social divide based on whether you live in a "good" area, or a neglected area where people are blamed and sneered at for their own lack of opportunity.

    The new powers to limit non zero emissions vehicles are worrying too. If your local council gets a bit over zealous, and you live in one of these areas, then your ability to even own an ICE car is gone. To say "petrol cars will be around for a long time yet" is a bit naive in terms of the potential consequences. Much is likely kite-flying, but the overall tone is worrying.
    Last edited by crank_case; 18-06-2019 at 09:55 PM.

  8. #18
    Just pay the motor tax. I've another 1500 due on the 530i and I'm just going to pay up, put it to the back of my mind for another 12 months and enjoy every precious mile.

  9. #19
    IN fairness its a nice sentiment , good idea & badly needed if you mean we should try and put a voice to this weird little cabal of car loving folks, if for no other reason to shine a light on the hypocrisy , pointlessness & absolute ology of some of the Govt/Green thinking/arguments for carbon change.

    I'd pay good money to sit and watch a select few of the more reasoned , informed & intelligent from on here, go toe to toe & shred most of the BS we hear from Pascal, Eamonn Ryan & the skinny fella from Friends of the Earth or whatever it is.

    Miriam for the mediation & I'd be thinking mick for the common sense motoring aspect, sj for his insight to how govt works, lyre appears to have done his homework and if memory serves is a doctor so big brain on board, bunk or cannyboy to cover the financials, LL to ensure nobody libels anyone and obviously cappo to add a touch of class .

    We can plant ming & DMZ in the audience to shout people down and go on rants about the monster looney raving populist shinners, free iphones for everyone if it all goes to shite - jobs a goodun!

  10. #20
    Replace EV with Diesel, zero emissions with cheap tax, ICE with Petrol and we are back in 2007.
    I'm only coming to a position now to buy a 08+ with "da cheaaap tax" so when will EV's be the next target?
    What will "da gubberment" to offset the loss of revenue from fuel, even traffic jams currently 99% of cars would be burning fuel adding to the coffers while EV's won't. Congestion charges will only work in certain areas so will every house have to have a second ESB meter to charge the car?
    While I would like to think EV's are the way forward currently a Tesla would have itself paid for in 10years savings in fuel but that would mean revenue would be way down when it gets close to saturation point then what will those in the dail decide to tax next?
    I don't know the answers to the questions above but at this stage, if the government said the sky is blue I would still have to check.
    Last edited by TGi; 18-06-2019 at 10:43 PM.

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