The Housing shortage saga - the root cause(s) ?

[Aontroim]

Germany, that’s nearly an insult, lol. I do actually have a sense of humour. I’m Swedish. I think most continental or Scandinavian countries work the same more or less, though. At least in Northern Europe. Places like Holland, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, and Norway all have very similar housing and planning and public transport. As in somebody has sat down and thought about it.

I couldn’t tell you what housing is like in terms of availability. Nobody talks about it. Not people, not media, and not politicians. I’m guessing it’s not a problem. The only thing making headlines now are falling prices.

Haha! Apologies, I put two and two together and made five there.

[blascae111]

Some of my best friends are very inner city - all from around the Liberties. There is a definite sense of entitlement that a social house in that area is provided to them - for most of them, they went on a housing list as soon as it was possible. One of the lads had a flat in Vicar St from the age of 20, moved in with his partner and then just rented out his council supplied house for cash in hand. He works for the revenue commissioners. They all have cars by the way.

My other mate is an estate manager for a social housing scheme - he's from the same area as the lads above - according to him there are 63 separate social housing groups in the country, including councils. None of them communicate with each other or share any info. So he has had long term tenants disappear from a house because they've also been down as homeless on the council housing list, and a house in an area they prefer has been offered to them. He constantly has stories which drive you nuts in relation to the whole situation, he's one of the first to give out about people riding the system, yet, he's putting his 22 year old down on the list for a council house because she drives him nuts.

My wife now has people rocking up on a weekly basis to get affidavits signed so as to go on a housing list - it is policy in Fingal that if you have any time with a minor after a separation that you can jump the queue. This has become common knowledge - shes even had grandfathers rocking up saying they had a kid one weekend a month and now need a full house. A twist on this is a couple who aren't separated at all claiming they are, and aiming to get two houses - one to live in and one to rent out. Would have thought that was pretty far fetched - but she mentioned that to the friend above and he confirmed it happens in his estates - except in his case they can act on it.

None of which is to say thats the root cause of any of the problems here - but it definitely contributes.

This is exactly the problem. But i was shot down a few posts back. If you build they will come....and come ....and come.
So many people fiddling the system because its what their parents did before them. Genuine people getting shafted who actually want to work but cant get any help. My son is friends with a boy from school and himself and his mother are sharing a room in her parents house. She is working a few days a week but was over the housing assistance threshold by 1000 euros so she is stuck with the parents for the foreseeable. She doesn't want to give up work because she wants her son to see you need to work in life. Would be so much easier to sit on her hole and get a house handed to her.
On the other side there was a couple living a few doors up from me in a council house. Single mother....partner living with her. He works for a well known broadband installer, she is doing gel nails on the side for cash. 181 arteon parked in driveway and a newish santa fe.

[kdevitt]

This is exactly the problem. But i was shot down a few posts back. If you build they will come....and come ....and come..

Well its not the only problem, but its a massive contributing factor imo. Funnily enough I mentioned this post to the missus last night, and she told me about a cracker they'd just had in. One guy rocks up with some girl he's gotten pregnant - wanting an affidavit signed for Fingal to get a priority house. Walks out, back in with another girl - he had her pregnant too. Out, back in again with another - three fecking houses being allocated because one guy can't use a johnny.

[blascae111]

That's a mad one and not one bit surprised.
I am friends with a few Clerks of works in the council. You would be shocked with some of the sh1te they have to deal with. From brand new houses destroyed because they didn't know how a shower curtain works, brand new stoves, kitchens, tiles being damaged because the neighbor got slightly better spec. Everything gets replaced just to keep the peace. This isn't just a small minority either.
Rolling out retrofits with heatpumps now aswell. That's going to cause another world of problems.
Doogooders and the public don't hear all this stuff or choose not to hear it and keep giving but where is it going to stop.?
Generations of people who dont give a sh1t about anything who wont even change a light bulb for themselves because its not their problem.

The model needs to be changed to sort this out. I'm all for affordable housing if it can be made work but no one should be given a house for life if they dont work.

Rant over.

[kdevitt]

From brand new houses destroyed because they didn't know how a shower curtain works, brand new stoves, kitchens, tiles being damaged because the neighbor got slightly better spec. Everything gets replaced just to keep the peace. This isn't just a small minority either.
Rolling out retrofits with heatpumps now aswell. That's going to cause another world of problems.

Yeah I've heard it all - my mate has had tenants leave who have stripped the house before going - light fittings, ovens, gas boiler - you name it. And before every letting, the house has to be brought up to current regs. Had one set of tenants who decided to set the newly installed cable broadband wiring on fire because they said it was 5G and caused cancer - then threatened the neighbours with a machete because they rang the fire brigade. It turns out the manhole they lit up was ducted into every house, and they were all filling with smoke. He also gets landed with junkies if the properties can't be turned around quickly enough - generally resulting in dealing going on, or him finding someone dead in their bed after a few months. Once you get these anti-social issues in place in an estate, those who aren't inclined to act like dickheads tent to start applying elsewhere for a house - so more pressure on the system.

Having personally rented our my own house while I lived in Australia - I think a lot of Irish people actually don't give a flying :D:D:D:D about treating a rented property correctly. We had to strip our carpets as they were covered in piss - there was also an old bag of used cat litter under the stairs which had turned into a rancid fluid, sofa smashed in half, holes in the walls, units pulled down etc. All three tenancies caused problems.

On the flip side - the council bought the house next door to us (Fingal will buy any house valued at under €400k - good luck competing with them!). The guys who moved in have been great - have pumped money into the house and are better neighbours than the people who previously owned the house.

[TuneR]

The model needs to be changed to sort this out. I'm all for affordable housing if it can be made work but no one should be given a house for life if they dont work.

Or at least contribute to society somewhat, going to continue the same way until something really bad happens or that Idiocracy film becomes true. Give people so much entitlement and they wont learn to respect anything as they'll expect it to be replaced.

Some of the stories here are crazy but i'd believe them all tbh. I do some work for a voluntary housing group and they just spent €40k+ on one house after the tenants left. Pulling out appliances, walls, cable and leaving it dangerous like gas outlets open or live wiring shown.

[crank_case]

The only thing making headlines now are falling prices.

Abba reuiniting, making both a new album and some ships in the same decade must have gotten a sidebar at least?

[Johnny_Limerick]

Well its not the only problem, but its a massive contributing factor imo. Funnily enough I mentioned this post to the missus last night, and she told me about a cracker they'd just had in. One guy rocks up with some girl he's gotten pregnant - wanting an affidavit signed for Fingal to get a priority house. Walks out, back in with another girl - he had her pregnant too. Out, back in again with another - three fecking houses being allocated because one guy can't use a johnny.

Id argue the woman knew what they were doing, and wanted their free house, and a glorified puppy.

[foyler]

A super depressing thought just dawned on me, there's a scary multiplier effect here at play over the generations, which I guess will come as no surprise to many.
Put simply the kind of people you'd hope to mostly populate the country & Earth are having way less kids , while some of those that some folk might suggest sterilizing such is the damage they inflict on society, are cranking out these beauts in the name of free iphones & sky to quote our overlord Ming.

Anyone seen an increase in rowdy teens in your locale of late??

[kdevitt]

Id argue the woman knew what they were doing, and wanted their free house, and a glorified puppy.

Oh you’ll get no argument here - it’s entirely likely. The lad trying to kill three birds with one stone by only having to go to the solicitors office once is something else though.

[Aontroim]

This is exactly the problem. But i was shot down a few posts back. If you build they will come....and come ....and come.

I think most people would agree with you that when people cheat the system or take without giving back that society in general suffers.

I think what may have grated a wee bit was the insinuation that winos and druggies were the root cause of the problem (or that everyone from a certain socio-economic background is some sort of reprobate) without exploring the reasons why these people may find themselves in this situation. They're people like, not vermin. To dehumanised them is to set a dangerous precedent.

If we wish to 'rid our society' of winos and druggies, we have to look at the root causes of these situations and structure our society in a way which allows these people to help themselves.

This is a complex area so I'm not saying we live in a happy-clappy world where everyone suffering from addiction is free from sin (so to speak).

I'm saying, I came from a supportive background with access to parental engagement which helped me academically and socially. This in turn has helped me to secure employment and success. On top of all this, I grew up with financial stability and could avail of financial support so that I could study. So it'd be very easy for me to look down my nose at those who haven't achieved what I've achieved but it might seem a wee bit hollow when you consider the head-start I got by being born to the parents I had.*

*I'm not Paris Hilton like, I worked part-time while studying, drive 15yo cars most of my life and have done my fair share of grafting. I just mean, it's easy for us to pat ourselves on the back for all our hard work (and we do work hard) but it's important to remember the advantages that may not be available to others. Not so we can give weak excuses but so we can actually make the changes that we feel so passionately should be made...

[fez]

Irish people cheat the system at all so up economic levels, it’s just that it annoys us more when people below us get what we worked hard for, rather than what people above us got by cheating the system their own way, because we think we could be like them, but the amount of people who are 100% self made and squeaky clean is tiny.

[TuneR]

Put simply the kind of people you'd hope to mostly populate the country & Earth are having way less kids ,

As per my previous post, you need to watch Idiocracy which is what you quoted but from an American POV.

[Flet]

They're people like, not vermin. To dehumanise them is to set a dangerous precedent.

Well said.

[foyler]

I'm missing or struggling to see where anyone referred to folk mentioned in this thread as druggies, winos and / or vermin lads, but I may well have missed it so feel free to outline or point out how you made the jump?

What I was reading had little to do with any addictions other than being addicted to society/the govt picking up the tab, fixing all our problems, massive amounts of entitlement and zero personal responsibility.
Its absolutely worth debating and already the thoughts of shaggy, kdevitt give clear , 1st hand fact based insight to 2 sides of the discussion.