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  • Joining NATO

    I was always convinced that Ireland being neutral made sense. Looking now at Ukraine and even the position of Finland (which gave the Russians a very bloody nose in two wars but ultimately lost Karelia) and Sweden (always maintained an impressive military) being bullied by Putin, and the jokes about Ireland scrambling the Cessna when Tupolev bombers appear off our coast and we find this out via Sky News, and our fishermen negotiating and protesting about naval live fire exercises over the internet cable, I'm not convinced.

    I think it is time to open the debate. What say the representative portion of our great citizenry on BR?
    sigpichttps://mingshitters.wordpress.com/

  • #2
    Depends, do we reckon Boris might take a shot at annexing Dublin ?

    Don't bother with Eco, it's not very nice, leave it in normal & drive it like you just stole it.

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    • #3
      Let’s discuss cars for a bit?

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      • #4
        Abolish VRT and join Nato!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Cold View Post
          Let’s discuss cars for a bit?
          As you often point out, you are free not to participate.
          sigpichttps://mingshitters.wordpress.com/

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Cold View Post
            Let’s discuss cars for a bit?
            Or just stay on topic here DMZ?
            I do think it is something we will have to consider as a very small nation.
            #justsayin
            2005 Alfa 166 2.0TS Grigio Geo - Daily Driver
            2001 Alfa 166 3.0 Proteo Rosso - The Beast - resting for now
            2000 Alfa 166 2.5 V6 Auto Verde Argo - the Baby
            1999 Alfa 166 2.5 V6 Grigio Nettuno - Track Car
            1984 Alfasud 1.5 Gold Cloverleaf Florentine Copper - the other Baby

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            • #7
              If we did decide to move away from 'neutrality', would we then be obliged to participate in the CDSP before attempting to join NATO?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Eoin View Post
                Abolish VRT and join Nato!
                I think our VRT and motor tax would cover our fees??

                I think we need to seriously consider it. It was grannd when we were a poor wet rock in the Atlantic with a few sheep as our most valuable asset. Things have changed and as Ireland has moved up in the world hosting huge companies and tech the eye of sauron begins to look at us.

                Mind you I have no idea what that means for our youth in terms of military service etc but when I entered the US many years ago on a green card I had to sign on the dotted line.
                _________________
                Older but no wiser.

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                • #9
                  What the recent events have shown is that we as a nation are incapable of asserting ourselves in our own territories. At a very minimum we should be able to monitor, intercept or arrest any crafts, whether on land, sear or air.

                  I've always wondered was our neutral stance asserted as a money saving mechanism. Look, or rather listen, to the distain in the verbiage used to dispel the "toys for the boys" or other comments when you try to make the case for a robust military. Where will we get the money? Etc. Etc.

                  So NATO, well, I don't see why not.

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                  • #10
                    I don't get this sudden Angry Dad need to 'join NATO' and deviate from 100 years of (relative) neutrality. I get the fact that Ireland is not truly neutral and more unaligned - or at least as MM said yesterday not politically neutral but militarily neutral - but I saw an opinion poll yesterday that had 75% not in favour, 9% undecided and 16% in favour so it seems like a minority is shouting loudest.

                    We didn't join NATO while the eh national question was unresolved and post-GFA joined the NATO Partnership for Peace. That's quite enough I'd say and if you recall some of the sticking points of the Nice and Lisbon treaty referenda were due to the possible non-compatibility with the traditional position of (relative) neutrality.

                    I just do not understand this join NATO clamour, I really don't. This State is pro-human rights, pro-international development, pro-UN Peacekeeping (and has a very proud record doing same) and pro-disarmament. That's what this country is about and has been since the inception of the Free State and no amount of Call of Duty Walter Mitty History Channel cheerleading should change that.

                    I mean, see the way you pull out an Irish passport all over the world and get welcomed like an old friend? Drop the neutrality, and that changes. All the gains this little country made in terms of its enormous soft power are for nothing.
                    1998 Porsche 911 3.4 Carrera 2 (996)
                    2000 Mazda MX-5 1.8 Jasper Conran #68/400
                    2003 BMW 325i E46 Sport Touring


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Flet View Post

                      I mean, see the way you pull out an Irish passport all over the world and get welcomed like an old friend? Drop the neutrality, and that changes. All the gains this little country made in terms of its enormous soft power are for nothing.
                      I've experienced this in so many countries and couldn't agree with you more.

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                      • #12
                        If we turned a blind eye to Nazism and a World War, why should we now risk our comfortable harmless seat at the world table for human injustice in Ukraine? No, no, no, our comfort is more important that standing up for freedom and human rights! Now stick on Dancing on Ice and forget all this nonsense! What is the latest iPhone like? Woo look! Love Island is about to start!

                        I don't think that we should join NATO. (Can we just rely on protection from the UK like the agreement signed in WW2. Is that still in place I wonder?). Joining would mean opening our shores to NATO forces, say like with Shannon for the Yanks (Eh, hold on a second?!? ), but openly spoken about. So that would put a nuke aimed at us which we don't need.
                        But surely even a Neutral country can make a moral stand at some point and act depending on the situation? When does neutrality turn to cowardice? Interesting question.

                        We all stood around in a circle naked, thrusting our clinched fists in the air screaming "Jap Power!!"

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                        • #13
                          If the nukes start flying I wouldnt be surprised if one or two land on the island. The UK army has bases in NI and would be seen as legit targets for a nuclear strike. That said if that happened it would be too late for everyone and an end of days type scenario

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                          • #14
                            Like I said, its time perhaps to open the debate, not so much an angry Dad requirement to join NATO. I'm undecided but if we weren't located an unfeasibly long way away from Russia for boots on the ground power projection I'd probably be saying lets join (we probably already would be in).
                            sigpichttps://mingshitters.wordpress.com/

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by mikerd4 View Post
                              If the nukes start flying I wouldnt be surprised if one or two land on the island. The UK army has bases in NI and would be seen as legit targets for a nuclear strike. That said if that happened it would be too late for everyone and an end of days type scenario
                              Ah stop theres hardly enough nukes to go around that County Antrim would be targeted....is there?

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