Invasion of Ukraine by Russia and War

[-alan-]

Putler will do what he will do regardless. The die has been cast years before now. Weakness now will seal the inevitable which will bite us all in time to come.

I dont really think that is the case.

I watched the link posted upthread about Biden and the Krsuchev lady and was interested to hear that both used similar language around Putin as a 'Rationale actor / caught out by poor intelligence / Somebody who made a poor judgement call'. Could of course just be positioning , it being hard to ever go back to the negotiating table with someone if you have previously labelled them a stark raving bloodthirsty lunatic

But looking back at the early days of the conflict (and indeed this thread itself) there was a short video from YouTube commentator Beau of the 4th suggesting that the Senior Russian Intelligence Services in Ukraine were every bit as corrupt as many of their peers, and had in fact fed duff info back to Putler re the easy walkover victory / welcome with open arms they could expect if they rolled into Ukraine.

That would lead you to believe that he fkt up Royally, never intended to be in this sit-ye-ayshun - and certainly after events of the last 12 months, won't be inclined to roll out any further 'NATO pushback' special operations in this or any other lifetime.

[Mike205]

I can't for the life of me picture why any of the other Western countries would want to pile in at this stage and risk giving Putin the excuse he needs to escalate.

Escalate what? What he can escalate even further? Do you honestly believe he is waiting for a reason to "escalate"? His economy is in shambles, army ruined by corruption and in pretty much retreat and his only way to escalate is to bomb civilian buildings with the remaining stock of very expensive missiles. He run out of options, he is lost.

[Rochey]

I'm no expert but if it was Rusky, surely it'd be a perfect time for Nato to roll into Ukraine and wipe out the invaders by Christmas.
This is just weakness and only strengthening Putin's resolve.

[-alan-]

By 'escalate' I meant the prospect of Putin choosing to add some nuclear options into the mix.

Can't see him opting to do so the way things are panning out at the moment where he's being wiped out slowly and progressively by 'UA' forces- in a way that suits the West. Any perceived escalation by the West would be a game-changer at least in the Russian calculus.

[hi-rev]

Its very easy to say if you are not the one that has to hold the rifle in your hand.

So far, the going is good; Ukraine is the one fighting Russia, and doing a good enough job of it.
If NATO is suddenly going to get involved directly, there is only one way forward, and it ends with a lot of dead people.

..and when the miniputin has realized that he is losing, he will push the last button and the mushrooms will blossom.

[markcro]

By 'escalate' I meant the prospect of Putin choosing to add some nuclear options into the mix.

Can't see him opting to do so the way things are panning out at the moment where he's being wiped out slowly and progressively by 'UA' forces- in a way that suits the West. Any perceived escalation by the West would be a game-changer at least in the Russian calculus.

The Ruskies don't want to actually die like no one else does. If he came to ordering that, I say that he would have a sudden accident. Anyway, he knows that it a one way ticket to total destruction of the Motherland, so he won't.

A friend of mine also likes to point out that "Ukraine was corrupt before this" But so what?
Like Greece/ Italy corrupt? Or like not that long ago Irish leader buying estates and even an island for hiself with public money corrupt?
That is irrelevant. What is relevant, is who filled mass graves, kidnapped around 1.5 million people, forced millions of refugees into the West, laid waste to a free country, started an economic war on the West (on us)?
And look at that country. It was once beautiful, now it is rubble. There is not much left to escalate! He will do what he will do regardless. As for labelling him as a madman, he and his cohort are total lying madmen. There should be no dealings with them. I commend the eastern states having the backbone to class Russia as a terrorist state for this. It should be used an example for any future madmen.
This is a slow trudge to the inevitable. As that famous quote: "To ensure peace, you must fully prepare for war"
And any weakness will guarantee war, maybe not straight away, but in time.....
I don't buy any of playing on the West's weak mindedness, and yes we have become weak. Ah maybe it's because Nato was expanding..... ah maybe it was we labeled him as a bad person and angered him.... maybe because we said that he was a liar when he promises and then breaks those promises like Hitler did..... maybe we shouldn't make him angry.....

[Ming]

I think the west has the message, even Germany. I hope so.

Another amusing little snippet. The Ukrainian troops on leave complain that the girls only want to sleep with HIMARS troops. Leading to lots of pretend artillery badges and a prediction of a baby boom 9 months after HIMARS arrived.


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[-alan-]

I thought the 'Steely Eyed Missile Man' thang was a Hollywood / Chuck Yeager invention ... but apparently no longer so

[blascae111]

Mad seeing this. I thought the younger generation would be all against putin. Probably best to just cut all travel for anyone with a Russian passport because most of em are deep down behind whats going on.

[Mike205]

Yeah, whatever. I'm honestly done caring what Russians young or old has to say about their glorious leader. Most of them are sadly brainwashed to oblivion or petrified to criticise anybody in ruling government. What is the most concerning is the amount of Russian citizens living in EU, apparently there is a vast amount of stuff being sent to Russian soldiers from abroad. Just like some of us are trying to support Ukraine by donating and sending goods, there are large number of Russians sending stuff on a large scale , it was recently publicised that vast amount of stuff is being regularly sent from Germany. :D:D:D:D like this should be stopped.

[jf_cole]

Mad seeing this. I thought the younger generation would be all against putin. Probably best to just cut all travel for anyone with a Russian passport because most of em are deep down behind whats going on.

Thats pretty scary that so many young people think that way.

[blascae111]

A complete cut off from the west is required. No Iphones, TV, Cloths and no travel. All the big brands did over there when this kicked off was just change their logo and keep operating.
Anyone found to be helping the russian cause should be shipped back.

[Boris]

Mad seeing this. I thought the younger generation would be all against putin. Probably best to just cut all travel for anyone with a Russian passport because most of em are deep down behind whats going on.

I think a few of them were quite tongue in cheek answering and some were fraid /cautious especially the burger king girls.

[Cold]

You’d be crazy in the head to criticise the regime on camera

[deltona]

Russians who left the country years ago and settled elsewhere in the world have received conscription letters to their overseas addresses.

Meetings held in many different countries around the world to deal with aid for Ukrainians have been monitored and had interlopers attend them. Including meetings in Ireland where these interlopers were caught out and escorted off the premises.
The military has been proven to be severely lacking and has rotted from the core outwards, but their surveillance network is still vast.
It's a case of wearing two faces, but only showing the nationalistic regime friendly face pretty much all the time. That's the sad messed up reality of it.