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Invasion of Ukraine by Russia and War

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  • Originally posted by -alan- View Post

    No, I dont think it's right to attack ambassadors of any country - they have a job to do, especially in times like this. It's important to treat them with a bit of respect. They are diplomatic professionals, and dont set or even necessarily support policy at regime level.

    If we treat those folk like dirt, then we run the risk of our Ambassadors and representatives being treated similarly over there, and if we dont keep those civilised channels open when everything else is turning to sh*t, then it just gets worse for everybody. That's the kind of thing plays directly into Putin's gameplan.
    Sorry, I disagree with you there.
    The ambassadors need to, by their job, to follow the country and the government of that country as an extension of that country's government. That is how they got the job, its not a random Russian guy who happened to emigrate and then got a job that happened to be ambassador, he purposely requested this.

    This guy right here, asked for an official event, it was refused, so he went as a private person and got painted.
    Its not the official equivalent of Poland that did this (ie. the mayor of Warsaw) but the vox populi.

    Considering the Russian invaders were never popular in Poland (after they liberated Poland form the Germans in 1945 they simply continued killing, then imposed fake governments and communism, with all the terror, mayhem and poverty that brought) the Russian propaganda machine has been attacking Poland and stating that it is the next target for a (nuclear, obviously) attack for the last 10-15 years, and that the Russian ambassador has been just as vocal in his support of the Russian invasion as the one in Ireland, I would consider this a return in kind.
    "This is a non-contact sport but then so is ice hockey" - Roberto Giordanelli on Irish FIAT Punto racing but applies to all Irish racing..
    "Tailgaters have small dicks" - Me

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    • I'm sort of in between on this issue. It is useful to retain a diplomatic connection with even the most heinous and disgracefully behaving regimes. The diplomatic representatives of such states should be protected from a dangerous attack likely to cause injury or death. Apart from that, anyone who wants to throw raspberry juice or throw paint at their gate should be dealt with as per normal - i.e. a not very serious offence.
      sigpichttps://mingshitters.wordpress.com/

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      • I would tend towards the general sentiment that Alan is trying to express, i.e. that diplomatic relations are always better to nurture than to destroy. This is not just about Russian values or lack thereof; our Western values have to be at the forefront. We aspire to do what is right, even when that is hard. We are willing to compromise to move forward. At the very least, the ambassador gives us a strong indication of what way a country's leadership is leaning in terms of its thinking (they are still leaning towards murdering, raping and pillaging it would seem). Whether the ambassador believes what they are saying, or not, is irrelevant. They are not there to express personal views, at least not in public. They are there to represent their country's views, and feed back the views of our country. If we send them home, or make their stay untenable, then we are not at the table anymore.

        We here on the island of Ireland should know better than most anyone about the power of diplomacy between sworn enemies to help bring about an end to murdering and thuggery and violence. There is typically a large difference between the posturing and harsh rhetoric you see being played out in the airwaves, versus the diplomacy and back-channelling that goes on behind closed doors.

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        • Not all Russians are bad:

          Ordinary Russians form ‘underground railroad’ to help Ukrainians escape to the West

          https://twitter.com/i/events/1523646954277941248?s=20
          sigpichttps://mingshitters.wordpress.com/

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          • Originally posted by injeejay View Post
            We here on the island of Ireland should know better than most anyone about the power of diplomacy between sworn enemies to help bring about an end to murdering and thuggery and violence. There is typically a large difference between the posturing and harsh rhetoric you see being played out in the airwaves, versus the diplomacy and back-channelling that goes on behind closed doors.
            Yeah. There's clearly a lot that goes on behind the scenes in diplomatic corridors that we plebs would never be party to - and if/when we manage to get to the point where this thing comes to an end, the diplomats will be the ones conveying and interpreting the messages between the warring parties.

            Also strikes me btw that having your ambassador to a country shamed and embarrassed in public like that could have the opposite effect to what you want on the neutrals back home in Russia.

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            • I guess it can be pretty hard trying to always be respectful to other diplomats and governments and hold the high moral ground when you are mostly dealing with someone who constantly lies and does what he pleases not giving a damn about anyone else,murdering and destroying an entire country and all its ramifications re food and fuel prices going through the roof.

              Being a high level diplomat/negotiator cant be easy dealing with situations like that,you probably want to just smack the other side around the head a lot of times but instead you just have to bite your tongue....a lot.

              Of course Putin has used the West's propensity to try and negotiate and deal with Russia to his advantage and you can now see what his intentions were all along.

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              • When you threaten a country with nuclear war, invade its neighbor and kill its children then you really cant expect people to take it lying down.
                At some point polite words in the face of rape have to stop.
                "This is a non-contact sport but then so is ice hockey" - Roberto Giordanelli on Irish FIAT Punto racing but applies to all Irish racing..
                "Tailgaters have small dicks" - Me

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                • Originally posted by hi-rev View Post
                  When you threaten a country with nuclear war, invade its neighbor and kill its children then you really cant expect people to take it lying down.
                  At some point polite words in the face of rape have to stop.
                  Indeed.
                  They also simulated nuking this country and the UK. And the week before that, nuking Berlin, Paris and London. Committed multiple attempted murders on European soil, with highly toxic agents of all things. Etc etc. They don't care about innocent people, laws, life or morals. At some point you have to recognise the devil for what it is, and get it away from your table.

                  We all stood around in a circle naked, thrusting our clinched fists in the air screaming "Jap Power!!"

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                  • If half of what is showing on the internet is close to reality the Russians need to surrender now. They will have nothing left soon:

                    https://twitter.com/IntelDoge/status...b-lqOuPLTbG0Vw
                    sigpichttps://mingshitters.wordpress.com/

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                    • I think the phrase "sitting ducks" was invented for things like that.

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                      • I'm sure a question that is beginning to be asked is can they go after the Russian retreat into Russian territory or at least fire at them across the border? Obviously this has implications on Putin's ability to declare war, seeing as he can only do so if Russia is attacked. Even though I'm sure he'll make up an excuse if needed, Ukraine firing into Russia will certainly work. Mind you, this could also be a major embarrassment as it's hardly a win that Russian troops have been pushed back into Russia.

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                        • They certainly can, as shown here in this remarkable attack on a tank 100km inside occupied Donetsk and 13km from the Russian border, and they have, as in helicopter and missile strikes and other attacks inside Russia. They surely won't send a real attack force onto Russian territory though.

                          https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/stat...b-lqOuPLTbG0Vw
                          sigpichttps://mingshitters.wordpress.com/

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                          • I think if they managed to push them out of their territory it would be a legendary win that could only be undone by the folly of chasing them into Russian territory. It would then be Ukraine’s turn having to declare what their objectives were on foreign soil and achieve them. Perhaps attacking any fire bases that are still firing on Ukraine territory as you say, but it would be high risk, low reward type stuff. If the Russian army were out, you could focus on fortifying a defensive line again with all of the wholesome goodness of the best US and Allies’ weaponry. Nothing would come through again. Not in one piece anyway. It would also allow a range of diplomatic and economic ultimatums to be passed hinged on any further incursions.

                            Incidentally, I don’t think Putin wants to declare war. I think that since the disgrace and shock of their withdrawal from Kyiv, he’s been looking for ways to get some sort of small victory that he can sell at home and abroad, and then get the fxuk out. People keep hitting him back though.

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                            • Bullies dont really like it when the ones they've been going after hit them back,repeatedly.

                              Putin should be learning a very important lesson from all of this,but I get the impression he never sees it as him making mistakes so never learns.

                              There far more knowledge people on here than me about this,do you think this will just develop into a stalemate in the East of Ukraine?
                              Or will the influx of military hardware do a big enough job on the Russians and send them packing?

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                              • Why does Pete Seeger's Waist Deep in the Big Muddy come to mind when I seen this. https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status...13089579511808 Here it says 58 vehicles lost trying to cross that river https://twitter.com/lodzman/status/1524426214429102080

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