In need of some Career Advice (Recent Graduate).

[Seanf999]

Not sure if this is the place to be asking so delete if needs be.

I'm (somehow) a final year Business student, if things go as planned I'll have a 2.1 degree under my belt by next June.

Frankly, I chose Business because I had no idea what I wanted to study, 4 years on (and with a lot of distain for my CAO choices) - I'm none the wiser.

I know two things:

• I either want to start my own Business or,
• I want to climb to the top of a company/profession.

I've always wanted to start my own Business, I guess the later is another way to get to executive decision making and the big bucks.

Ultimately I'm driven by money, and just wanting to achieve my full potential, I've had handy numbers (summer jobs) earning €14 an hour to do nothing, and I'd honestly rather work for minimum wage in retail just so I feel like I'm actually doing something - that's what I'm currently at, I don't fancy being stuck here indefinitely.

I'm quite happy to work long hours and never be off the clock, I've never been good at the old work/life/college balance.
I don't think I'm disillusioned as to what self employment means.
A fella I know runs his own IT company has done for 10 years, has done very well for himself but I'd say he's working 70+ hours every week at least.

What interests me?

Good question (I know I asked myself), Business processes, how a Business makes its money, competitive advantage all that.
How McDonalds is almost more so a real estate company rather than a fast food business. How Starbucks is very similar to a bank (down to their app).
As simply as I can write it - that's what interests me, the smart ways Businesses line their pockets.
I also like cars and stupid facts, usually about businesses or cars.

So I've considered Management Consultancy, it'd realistically mean getting into a good masters programme, which is easier said than done.
Then again I've heard it's a lot of nonsense - endless presentations, not so meaningful work-wise etc.

Considering Digital Marketing too (Masters) - Good at Marketing, interested in the analytics behind it (despite not being great at maths, if I was I'd be deadly. I've always said if I was anyway good at maths I'd be an engineer), but pay is poor and I don't want to end up running social media accounts.
There's also the ethics of it, I get irrationally annoyed at ads tugging on heartstrings, that new harmless attempt by SuperValu to create a John Lewis type ad can do one as far as I'm concerned.

I'm seriously considering moving into Software (Higher Diploma, possibly followed up with a Masters), I've friends in it, they love it, great pay, benefits and more so I'd be learning a transferrable skill, plenty of opportunity for business start ups in the realm of tech.
So I'd more so be doing it to learn a skill that might eventually help me set up a Business, but would also make me employable.
That being said, I'm not entirely convinced it's for me.. I've tried to teach myself Java a few times and I never stick with it, I've gotten to If statements and that's it..
Maybe it's not for me, or maybe I just need the structure of college to nail down the basics?

I've also considered just about everything else - learning a trade to start a business and 101 other college programmes.

I'm trying to focus on exams but this is rattling around in my head.
I thought I'd ask here since you lot (seemingly) have a few years worth of experience over my head, there's a lot of money going about in the form of four wheels - you can't be doing too bad, and we're all Irish so I can avoid the whole 'college is a scam' spiel from our American friends.

Anyway,

Any ideas/thoughts/suggestions?

[Ryan]

If you’re ambitious and want to do well you have to be mindful that as your career develops you will naturally steer yourself into positions, companies and industries that allow you to flourish - and the funny thing is that you don’t know what country you will end up in or what job you will end up doing 5 or 10 years down the line (certainly the case for me in both respects), so it is important to have skills that are transferable and start gaining experience that gives you solid grounding.

My advice would be to go into a sales role and see where it takes you. Doesn’t really matter if you start selling houses, cars or software. Work hard and the results will come.

[simonmcf]

Apply to the big 4 - train as an auditor / accountant. I called it 4th level education. You make your own career, training with a PwC etc gives a great grounding, and I was very much in your shoes, everything’s worked out well for me over the years.

[Cold]

If I’m not mistaken, the job market is hot so I think you should just get stuck in there with whatever you’re good at. The key thing is to grab opportunities whenever they arise and build on them and right now the opportunity is the post Covid boom. If you’re working hard and you’re smart enough then you’ll make progress. I don’t really get what more studying will achieve if you can land a job now. I think you need to think about your monetisable skills and stick them in a CV and go from there. Maybe you have some impressive academic results, you did some projects, you have some personal achievements, or you have learnt and achieved something in your part time jobs that you can write some BS about.

If they take on graduates, the likes of Accenture do exactly what you are talking about and you would learn and potentially earn huge amounts in a place like that. And if Accenture requires you to have a masters then that’s what you need to get. But I think stuff like MBA’s is something you can do later if necessary.

[JohnBoy]

agree with the lads, get into one of the big 4, tell them you're hungry for work and hours, they'll love you!

Assuming you're only in your early 20s? get out and get working and figure out what it is you want to do. when you have a bit of experience under your belt and have more of an idea on where you want to go then look into further education. No one is going to want to take on a 22 or 23 year old with an MBA but no experience as a consultant, you will still have to earn your stripes somewhere else first

[Conorw89]

My advice would be to try and not be so obsessed with money, and don't tell yourself it's ok to be a workaholic and have no issue with always being on the clock. Sounds great when you're young to be an 'always on the grind, hard worker', but really it's a load of shite. You'll most likely end up burnt out in your 30s and looking back on a part of life wasted making other people money. Or else you'll be a sociopath exec. with all the cars and gaffs you ever wanted, see your token kids for 3 hours a week and have a heart attack at 50 on your boat

[deltona]

My advice would be to try and not be so obsessed with money, and don't tell yourself it's ok to be a workaholic and have no issue with always being on the clock. Sounds great when you're young to be an 'always on the grind, hard worker', but really it's a load of shite. You'll most likely end up burnt out in your 30s and looking back on a part of life wasted making other people money. Or else you'll be a sociopath exec. with all the cars and gaffs you ever wanted, see your token kids for 3 hours a week and have a heart attack at 50 on your boat

Oh fcuk me - you've no idea how true this reads to me and what I've experienced and have seen happen to others through my life!

[dimitri]

It's ok to not know what you want to do. I'm probably getting close to double your age, and I'm still not sure what I want to be when I grow up.

I am at the stage where I'm interviewing a lot of graduates though, and what I would say is that while college isn't a scam, more college does not equal more likely to be hired. What usually wins out is demonstrated ability to get stuff done, good work ethic, a doer rather than a dreamer. I have had people tell me they expect to be in my job in two to three years, I'm sure they saw it on tictok or something, but in reality they are either deluded or they are disrespecting me and it's tough to come back from either.

Congrats on the 2.1. That doesn't just happen by accident, it took effort. Your next couple of steps will be the same. If you turn up, are open to learn, take ownership of tasks and prove yourself to be reliable then things will work out for you. I think that advice applies to you going corporate or solo. Best of luck!

[foyler]

My advice would be to try and not be so obsessed with money, and don't tell yourself it's ok to be a workaholic and have no issue with always being on the clock. Sounds great when you're young to be an 'always on the grind, hard worker', but really it's a load of shite. You'll most likely end up burnt out in your 30s and looking back on a part of life wasted making other people money. Or else you'll be a sociopath exec. with all the cars and gaffs you ever wanted, see your token kids for 3 hours a week and have a heart attack at 50 on your boat

Glad to read this amongst the other solid advice!

[colm89]

Have to agree with a lot of the advice on here.

I thought I was money hungry and eager to work, moved to London and got a direct sales job with other actually money hungry people. It was horrific. I lasted 9 months, but it taught me more about myself than the previous 6 years at uni.

Agree with dimitri, more education means feic all. In years gone by it helped get your cv in front of the right people, but with the current employment market I think that’s gone out the window. Much like dimitri I’ve been interviewing a lot of graduates lately, as have mates in other industries that I meet for coffee every day, and we all agree that the most important thing right now is being a genuine person that will fit well into the team. Unless you’re a medical doctor, everything else can sort of be learned on the job.

TlDR; get a sales job and realign your motivations. Alternatively big 4 sounds like a shout, anyone I know that went into consultancy jobs like that hung in for a short spell and then moved client side for an easier life.

[Seanf999]

Apply to the big 4 - train as an auditor / accountant. I called it 4th level education. You make your own career, training with a PwC etc gives a great grounding, and I was very much in your shoes, everything’s worked out well for me over the years.

This seems to be the go to advice and it's the route that a lot of my classmates are taking.
It's not really something I've considered because I don't particularly like accounting, Management side is fine but financial isn't really for me.
I've just never chosen the modules when given the option so I've little in the way of FE-1 exemptions.

[Seanf999]

agree with the lads, get into one of the big 4, tell them you're hungry for work and hours, they'll love you!

Assuming you're only in your early 20s? get out and get working and figure out what it is you want to do. when you have a bit of experience under your belt and have more of an idea on where you want to go then look into further education. No one is going to want to take on a 22 or 23 year old with an MBA but no experience as a consultant, you will still have to earn your stripes somewhere else first

Accounting was never on my radar, I always managed to pass the accounting modules but I've never chosen extra ones.
I don't dislike accounting but I wouldn't say I enjoy it either.
I mean it's probably something I could get into but I don't know if I'd be working against myself by doing so.

[Seanf999]

My advice would be to try and not be so obsessed with money, and don't tell yourself it's ok to be a workaholic and have no issue with always being on the clock. Sounds great when you're young to be an 'always on the grind, hard worker', but really it's a load of shite. You'll most likely end up burnt out in your 30s and looking back on a part of life wasted making other people money. Or else you'll be a sociopath exec. with all the cars and gaffs you ever wanted, see your token kids for 3 hours a week and have a heart attack at 50 on your boat

How big was my boat!?

But seriously, it's not really something I've ever considered not doing..
I spent awhile as an apprentice electrician, I worked 50hr weeks (on first year apprentice wages), I was shite at the actual electrician work but I great at stock take, inventory, checking permits, equipment testing and all of that.
Working in a shop I'm constantly picking up extra hours, I was on placement earning €400 or so a week and I still worked Saturday and Sunday in my part time supermarket job, I'd rather be working.
I find if it's all or nothing, and when it's nothing I end up with terrible eating habits, inconsistent sleep patterns and playing the Playstation for days on end to get good.

[Flet]

My (German) father who went into lecturing off the back of an undergrad degree and 30 years professional experience always said "don't do a Masters until you absolutely have to" and I still maintain he was 100% correct. He would have also been of the view to do your PhD no earlier than in your 50s/60s to stay relevant and to ensure well paid employment up to retirement. A Masters tacked onto an undergrad degree is pointless and I say that as a hiring manager also. Do it when you're trying to drive a change in your 30s or when switching sector. Don't pull that lever too soon or you'll be doing another one, potentially.

I'd agree with dimitri, when hiring graduates I tend to look less for 'moar college' and more for something that marks them out as ambitious or committed. Be it playing competitive sport, having done Erasmus in some small town or region where they had to learn the language they went to pick up, any sort of promotion or extra responsibility in any previous role, a hobby that requires considerable investment of time etc.

When you're in your 20s you lack experience but you have loads of energy. So if you're money motivated, happy to put in the hours and learn from the ground up then I agree with Ryan, start in Sales. You'll always be selling in some shape or form, so prove yourself there, get the earnings growth and then specialise be it internally or switch roles. Save the MBA for later, same with the consulting. And I'd add to what is implied above, if you do a full time MBA at 22/23 then you're always going to be working on difficult, challenging sh1t because that's what you now do. Save that until you're 37 which is the average age that folks do Executive MBAs at.

I'll always beat this drum but mastering an EU language may stand to you in the long run, it might ensure mobility or ease you into a Shared Service Centre type environment where a 2nd language is often a hard requirement. That's a good side project to have on the go when trying to grow in FDI Ireland Inc., and there's different ways of doing it: for example the French state offer proficiency exams that can be taken in (I think) Cork periodically and are universally recognised in Francophone countries. Even if you don't master the language, it can still grease a wheel or two in terms of cultural understanding or helping to get something over the line if trust has to be built quickly. It always pays to have a really good strategic 3-5 year personal plan (even if I currently don't lol) and that's about the time you'd need to get really good at a language.

Many people will tell you quietly that the key to real career progression is tenure, and even having a good internal mentor in the company - this has certainly proved to be the case for me. It can pay to find a company that you are happy to stay in for 10+ years, which takes a bit of aligning on product, core values, mission, ownership structure etc. LinkedIn can tell you what the average tenure of people at a company is, which I think is often a good sign of how decent they are as an employer (or how competitive the pay structure is).

Finally, it takes a fair bit of luck. I joined a place with 350 employees intending to stay for 6-12 months. Three years they floated with 3500 or so employees, which was very lucrative as an early joiner. When I left after 9 years the company had 10k employees, with a lot of folks who joined early having enjoyed immense career growth. That was pure, unadulterated luck. I was then headhunted for the role after that by a company I had up to then never heard of, again a complete stroke of good fortune.

[Cold]

Accounting was never on my radar, I always managed to pass the accounting modules but I've never chosen extra ones.
I don't dislike accounting but I wouldn't say I enjoy it either.
I mean it's probably something I could get into but I don't know if I'd be working against myself by doing so.

This lad was not talking about accounting. That's more KPMG and EY I think. Accenture is about business processes, digital transformations, that kind of thing. I come across them all the time on the business side. Boston Consulting also.