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Covid-19 Pandemic - Alright everyone, back to The Pile

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  • Originally posted by DMZ View Post

    Antigen is sufficient so not too bad but yes a pain.
    From everything I've read, entry into Germany for an under 12 is mandatory quarantine for 5 days provided a negative test.

    Comment


    • I was incidentally hoping that my teenage kids (in the 12+ cohort) would be better protected against Covid-19 and didn't just get vaccinated so they can access stuff and travel but it seems to be ripping through that age group as well with many cases in schools. I don't think it's spreading in schools with these older kids though, to give NPHET some credit on that point, but with all the GDPR hush hush it's hard to tell. I have heard anecdotally that unvaccinated teenagers have a slightly worse time of it but it's not a particularly big deal one way or another.

      I think it was borderline with teenagers and given the lifestyle impact without vaccine pass, they wanted it done anyhow. Younger kids not so sure but thankfully not a decision that I need to make.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Bunk View Post
        https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/...december-2021/

        I must say as a parent of 4 kids under 12 I'm concerned where this is going. This just feels all wrong to me. We've gone from "schools are safe" to masking kids in the space of a few short weeks. I didnt pile in on NPHET with the "we never said schools are safe" places thing, because while they most certainly did and its an embarassing about-face, fundamentally, kids are statistically better to catch covid than the flu. We have had zero child deaths under 12 in the country from covid, there are no children in ICU and according to both Holohan and Micheal Martin in recent weeks, the childrens hospitals are struggling not with covid but with RSV and other respiratory illnesses caused by the kids of the country having an underdeveloped immune system as a consequence of lockdowns.

        For that matter, the adult hospitals are coping pretty well, and once again everyone seems to be terrified of this new 400k cases in December projection that is no doubt as accurate as the 700k cases thing in July.

        Whats worring me the most is the language which is similar to that in Holohans letter in the summer recommending vaccination for the 12-18 group.

        https://assets.gov.ie/180194/3a1300b...197e939b68.pdf

        In this letter he states essentially that children and young people

        (1) have extremely low risk from covid
        (2) the vaccines have not been adequately tested on those age groups and long term side effects cannot be known
        (3) he recommends vaccination anyway to protect the kids not from the disease but from the disruption to their lives caused by his recommendations for how society deals with the virus.

        Now since then we have learned that the vaccines are not going to give us herd immunity. This is the last plank on which any ethical medical practitioner could reasonably get their head around giving a medical treatment with unknown long term effects to a patient who statistically derives no benefit from it individually.

        It appears he will be going down the same route with the latest letter.

        "In a very short period of time, we have seen a significant and rapid deterioration in the epidemiological situation, and a resultant very high incidence in the as-yet-unvaccinated 5 – 11-year-old age group. This is a cause for some concern."

        "I would also like to note that vaccines are doing an excellent job of preventing severe illness and disease in those who are fully vaccinated. This is really good news, and I welcome the European Medicines Agency (EMA) authorisation of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine for primary school going children (5-11 years). We anticipate receiving further advice from the National Immunisation Advisory Committee (NIAC) in the near future."

        Now we know that vaccines are not going to give us herd immunity and do not prevent transmission of the virus. So why would we vaccinate children, when they do not suffer from this disease (I know there are exceptions), the transmission prevention/herd immunity window provided by it is very short and there are variants coming down the tracks that possibly will require more jabs? I just hope to God the introduction of child vaccinations is not accompanied by wider societal measures (such as vaccine passes etc) which essentially force parents to make a decision on it.
        But yes of course. If kids can remain kids forever, then yes your logic holds water somewhat.

        Even if you have ignored the idea that a asymptotic carrier may pass the disease to a fragile individual. A kid to a grandparent for example.
        Last edited by hi-rev; 01-12-2021, 05:16 PM.
        "This is a non-contact sport but then so is ice hockey" - Roberto Giordanelli on Irish FIAT Punto racing but applies to all Irish racing..
        "Tailgaters have small dicks" - Me

        Comment


        • I keep seeing arguments in the direction of "but what if the vaccine does not work, then why am I getting it"
          Noone has yet given my a single drawback to getting the vaccine.

          Its free, it has virtually no side effects (apart from that one uncle that we all know) so why not fecking just doing it, and be on the safe side.

          Do it for the bloody lopipop, dammit.
          "This is a non-contact sport but then so is ice hockey" - Roberto Giordanelli on Irish FIAT Punto racing but applies to all Irish racing..
          "Tailgaters have small dicks" - Me

          Comment


          • Originally posted by hi-rev View Post

            But yes of course. If kids can remain kids forever, then yes your logic holds water somewhat.

            Even if you have ignored the idea that a asymptotic carrier may pass the disease to a fragile individual. A kid to a grandparent for example.
            1) The jab's efficacy wains after a couple of months
            2) The virus can be transmitted irrespective of your jab status

            Take your head out from under the rock.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Aaron-ek9 View Post

              1) The jab's efficacy wains after a couple of months
              2) The virus can be transmitted irrespective of your jab status

              Take your head out from under the rock.
              1) ....and in that time you will reduce the likelihood of getting covid, and pass it to others, so its a win in that time, is it not?
              2) false.

              Get your own head out of your own rock.
              "This is a non-contact sport but then so is ice hockey" - Roberto Giordanelli on Irish FIAT Punto racing but applies to all Irish racing..
              "Tailgaters have small dicks" - Me

              Comment


              • Originally posted by hi-rev View Post

                1) ....and in that time you will reduce the likelihood of getting covid, and pass it to others, so its a win in that time, is it not?
                2) false.

                Get your own head out of your own rock.
                Your point was that a child will ultimately become an adult!

                Also, are you saying that a jabbed person cannot transmit C19?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Aaron-ek9 View Post

                  1) The jab's efficacy wains after a couple of months
                  2) The virus can be transmitted irrespective of your jab status

                  Take your head out from under the rock.
                  Again, this post proves my point.

                  Even if it was true, its still not an argument to NOT get the vaccine.

                  The logic above apparently is that since the vaccine is not the winning lottery ticket, so why get it?

                  Get it because it is better than nothing It is miles miles better than nothing, but as it does not come with Monica Bellucci and a Ferrari F40LM it is not worth getting it, because... well why?
                  "This is a non-contact sport but then so is ice hockey" - Roberto Giordanelli on Irish FIAT Punto racing but applies to all Irish racing..
                  "Tailgaters have small dicks" - Me

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Aaron-ek9 View Post

                    Your point was that a child will ultimately become an adult!

                    Also, are you saying that a jabbed person cannot transmit C19?
                    Can, yes. Likely, no.
                    And the efficacy is dropping, yes but not dramatically.

                    Eh :D:D:D:D it, its like discussing with someone who does not believe in evolution because it is only a theory.
                    "This is a non-contact sport but then so is ice hockey" - Roberto Giordanelli on Irish FIAT Punto racing but applies to all Irish racing..
                    "Tailgaters have small dicks" - Me

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by hi-rev View Post

                      Can, yes. Likely, no.
                      And the efficacy is dropping, yes but not dramatically.

                      Eh it, its like discussing with someone who does not believe in evolution because it is only a theory.
                      secondary attack rate was not significantly higher in unvaccinated (38%, 95% CI 24–53) than fully vaccinated (25%, 18–33) household contacts (table 1). We estimated vaccine effectiveness at preventing infection (regardless of symptoms) with delta in the household setting to be 34% (bootstrap 95% CI –15 to 60). Sensitivity analyses using a 14 day threshold for time since second vaccination to study recruitment to denote fully vaccinated did not materially affect our estimates of vaccine effectiveness or SAR (data not shown).

                      Ref: Imperial College London study published in The Lancet Infectious Diseases, a respected peer-reviewed medical science journal.



                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by hi-rev View Post

                        Again, this post proves my point.

                        Even if it was true, its still not an argument to NOT get the vaccine.

                        The logic above apparently is that since the vaccine is not the winning lottery ticket, so why get it?

                        Get it because it is better than nothing It is miles miles better than nothing, but as it does not come with Monica Bellucci and a Ferrari F40LM it is not worth getting it, because... well why?
                        There's no talking to you, clearly. The point of Bunk's post above is lost on you so I'll leave this here!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Aaron-ek9 View Post

                          1) The jab's efficacy wains after a couple of months
                          2) The virus can be transmitted irrespective of your jab status

                          Take your head out from under the rock.
                          The first point isn't really true, by the way. Its ability to prevent transmission wanes after a couple of months but it's still protecting you against serious illness. Otherwise our ICUs would be overwhelmed for real and not just in somebody's spreadsheet.

                          The reason they're questionable for kids is that they don't really need the serious illness protection.

                          But incidentally hi-rev has a point that the risks with the vaccines are extremely small so it's a moot discussion to some degree. Still nobody is forcing anyone to get vaccinated and those that don't like the vaccine won't like it no matter what and those that do like them will like them no matter what so...

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by DMZ View Post


                            The reason they're questionable for kids is that they don't really need the serious illness protection.
                            Agreed. And you could probably take the 'really' from that sentence.

                            Comment


                            • I'm very much pro-vaccine and even though I would probably be fine if I got covid, i took the jab for the wider good.

                              Its going to be a hard sell even for moderately pro-vaccine people to get their kids vaccinated for as Bunk points out, their risk is low around COVID, and we dont know the long term effects. The vaccine reduces transmission a bit, but so would contact tracing, masking and hand washing & sanitization.

                              Its also getting harder and harder to listen to the Government and Saint Tony when they have gone from "Schools are safe" to "Lets mask up and vaccinate" in a huge U Turn which was clear from any school aged parent in September was a terrible idea and then had the absolute gall to tell us "We never safe schools were safe environments". With such a U turn and then gaslighting us, its hard to trust them on this issue with our kids.

                              The only issue is Long Covid, but there is so little out there, its hard to know what to make of it. Those on the front line talk about it, but if you are at the furnace, all you can tell people about is how hot the fire is. Is it really a big, long term problem? Or do people just feel foggy and tired for a few weeks?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by jf_cole View Post
                                Those on the front line talk about it, but if you are at the furnace, all you can tell people about is how hot the fire is.
                                100% robbing this phrase.

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