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  • You will rant about stuff no matter what so I don't think I was aiming that post at you tbh. More of a reflection on things, which you can agree with or otherwise.
    I'm with the resistance

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    • I have a micro FWP which is that I would love to bring in a car that would make f-all difference to carbons and all that because it would be driven infrequently and only has the same engine as a Honda Type R anyway but instead of being driven infrequently here it will be driven infrequently elsewhere (same difference carbonwise as we are all in this together on this little ole planet of ours apparently) and the Republic of Shinnerstan will get no tax. Do me a deal on the VRT and I might pay the tax. Which would allow the free bounty for I was going to say all, but actually for some, through which we will achieve maintainable prosperity to continue for longer.

      I appreciate that the people will not demonstrate for me on this one, just as they wrongly express no grief for our lost 12.5%.

      And yes this is relevant to climate change. Albeit only tangentially.



      Edit. Ireland is a place for new car tech because that is the only way it will be possible to have some fun here. The infrastructure will no doubt follow in the usual course.
      sigpichttps://mingshitters.wordpress.com/

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      • Originally posted by Ming View Post
        I have a micro FWP which is that I would love to bring in a car that would make f-all difference to carbons and all that because it would be driven infrequently and only has the same engine as a Honda Type R anyway but instead of being driven infrequently here it will be driven infrequently elsewhere (same difference carbonwise as we are all in this together on this little ole planet of ours apparently) and the Republic of Shinnerstan will get no tax. Do me a deal on the VRT and I might pay the tax. Which would allow the free bounty for I was going to say all, but actually for some, through which we will achieve maintainable prosperity to continue for longer.

        I appreciate that the people will not demonstrate for me on this one, just as they wrongly express no grief for our lost 12.5%.

        And yes this is relevant to climate change. Albeit only tangentially.
        I'm all for this. You'd think Ireland would be open to a system where, with odd stuff like an Atom you could make an offer...
        "All the finesse of a badger." (cdiv)

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        • Originally posted by DMZ View Post
          You will rant about stuff no matter what so I don't think I was aiming that post at you tbh. More of a reflection on things, which you can agree with or otherwise.
          How about some statistics? Compared to other European countries, our tax system is not effective in moving people to EVs or even plug in hybrids.



          And yes, it does seem odd that we manage to be ahead of China in terms of percentages, but you've got to remember it's such a huge automotive market, it can have a lower percentage of sales but still sell more EVs than anywhere else. Europe as a whole has only finally overtaken China in EV sales totals.
          https://www.instagram.com/diecast_1_64/

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          • The Nordics seem to be leading the charge,literally.

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            • Originally posted by Titan View Post
              The Nordics seem to be leading the charge,literally.
              It helps if you're an oil rich nation and can splash the cash for incentives so that a Tesla makes more sense than a Mondeo, but I think the real story is when you look at the non-Nordic countries like the Netherlands. As far as I'm aware - the Netherlands has less punitive taxation.

              Motor tax rates go by fuel and vehicle weight - some vehicles are even totally exempt from tax.

              Their nearest equivalent to VRT is BPM which is a CO2 Surchage, but tends to be a fixed number based on CO2 and doesn't have a million punitive "bands" - the average BPM paid on a new car would be just under €5000.

              Yet despite not racking up the taxes like we do, people are buying zero emissions cars. They take fuel into account, their tax site has categories for electric, hydrogen, diesel, LPG, etc. while Ireland doesn't get beyond Daysul or Electric really and a vague acknowledgement that petrol exists.

              Clearly the "stick" approach isn't working, but when Ireland tries to think of how to induce real change, all they can think of is...





              https://www.instagram.com/diecast_1_64/

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              • Damn you to hell crank....that will be stuck in my head now as I try and go to sleep!!

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                • So crank, given that EVs are about the only vehicles in Ireland that cost about the same as they do everywhere else (and with the same spec), why aren’t you buying one? Because the €120 motor tax isn’t weight based? Or why do you think people in Sweden buy them for about the same money as here even though they’re not as heavily penalised on the alternatives as we are? Any ideas?
                  I'm with the resistance

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                  • Originally posted by DMZ View Post
                    So crank, given that EVs are about the only vehicles in Ireland that cost about the same as they do everywhere else (and with the same spec), why aren’t you buying one? Because the €120 motor tax isn’t weight based? Or why do you think people in Sweden buy them for about the same money as here even though they’re not as heavily penalised on the alternatives as we are? Any ideas?
                    I'm not Crank but I think few of us actually buy new/nearly new cars, and old EVs are old tech. It'll be a while before I spend more than 10k on a car (and I'm an overpaid elite civil servant) which means an EV is still a few years away for me.
                    "All the finesse of a badger." (cdiv)

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                    • I have no idea why it's like this by the way but I would speculate that Irish people don't like spending big on cars and you need to spend big to buy an EV and/or there aren't the types of finance deals here that make spending big easy, ie leasing. Hence the previous reliance on imports, or perhaps the previous reliance on imports created this situation. Diesel is also quite attractive here as a proposition.

                      I can also say what I think makes Sweden come high up on the list: diesel is about 15c more than here per litre I think, people drive mostly petrol as they have been told that diesel is sh1t and people care deeply about emissions and environmental impact, it's easy to go from petrol to PHEV (which is the majority of the vehicles in that graph in the case of Sweden because of Volvo), and from there it's easy to go to EV. People also know that leveraging a zero carbon grid will do some very nice things to an environment that they care deeply about. And it's a lot easier to go to EV if you're already used to spending big. This is a country where Porsche outsells Opel after all so if you're already spending close to six figure amounts routinely then you can switch that spend to an EV quite easily. Possibly another factor is that households have less cars as people cycle and use public transport a lot more than here so can spend more on that single car instead of splitting the spend across several. And.. possibly because of this it's also very easy to rent cars. Many petrol stations rent out cars and vans, there are many rent by the hour crowds including Volvo which has a cracking offering with high-end cars, ... All of this eventually helps the transition I think.

                      Another reason for the differences is that I believe many countries have very generous company car taxation based on emissions, which is not really the case here. If you can write the entire lease off income tax type of situation then EVs are for nothing basically. But I'm guessing tbh.
                      I'm with the resistance

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                      • I think that's spot on DMZ - in the UK everyone seems to lease - partly availability, partly cultural.
                        "All the finesse of a badger." (cdiv)

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by DMZ View Post
                          So crank, given that EVs are about the only vehicles in Ireland that cost about the same as they do everywhere else (and with the same spec), why aren’t you buying one? Because the €120 motor tax isn’t weight based? Or why do you think people in Sweden buy them for about the same money as here even though they’re not as heavily penalised on the alternatives as we are? Any ideas?
                          Because my current very low mileage car is perfectly serviceable for many years to come and I have other things to spend 20k on, when it needs replacing, that's when taxation comes into play. When it comes time to replace it, it'll likely be an EV, which will hopefully be cheaper and better than what's on offer now, but it makes zero sense right now. That kinda misses the point though, I'm not out looking for a new petrol or diesel car either.

                          A certain number of people each year will decide to replace their car, and somehow most other Europeans countries seem to be more effective in getting people to chose something that's not a diesel, despite, mostly, having far less punitive tax regimes.

                          Pricing - an IONIQ5 actually starts cheaper here than the Netherlands - though it's likely better specced over there.

                          You can spin it whatever way you wish, but it seems to me that this whole thing where as you say EVs are far more favorable, but any mildly interesting petrol car gets hammered has achieved pretty much nothing in terms of changing peoples buying habits.

                          The used car market and imports, while that's an interesting thing unto itself doesn't really come into it, those figures are for new cars.

                          We can speculate all day as to cultural and other reasons why Irish people don't seem to be choosing new EVs. Charging infrastructure probably comes into it, lower population density to an extent, poor value leasing options, or maybe there's an association between Irishness and diesel in the same way as silly loyalties to Tayto/King crisps/Barrys/Lyons Tea and immersion heaters? Who knows beyond anecdotal theories that sound convincing but probably don't have numbers to prove them. It'd be interesting to know if the states done any sort of sensible indepth and unbiased research into why people are making the choices they are.

                          It just seems to me that the same old tactics are used and then they act surprised when they don't get a different result. Bad citizen, bad! the beatings shall continue til morale improves.


                          https://www.instagram.com/diecast_1_64/

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                          • I've just replaced the family bus with a petrol! I live in a terraced house and I have a disabled spot outside for Mrs Cappo, who has medical issues so there is no way to plug in an EV, which is true of 95% of residents on the road.

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                            • Crank, I know you like inventing arguments so you can go off on long rants about god knows what but I haven’t spun anything or claimed that anything is effective or otherwise when it comes to uptake. Probably because I really couldn’t give a toss. I’m not the government so why would I care? What I did write, on the other hand, was that Ireland is good for new tech. If you don’t want it or can’t afford it… such is life. New tech, in this context, refers to EVs (to avoid another long rant if possible).
                              I'm with the resistance

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                              • You guys should get a room. Powered by either coal or wind depending on who wins the first face-off.
                                sigpichttps://mingshitters.wordpress.com/

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