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Covid-19 Pandemic - The New Hope

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  • Originally posted by deltona View Post

    *Fixed that for you, before some people find it confusing.
    Yep. If you've had your jabs, AND the other people in the restaurant/pub have had theirs, your risk of getting Covid is considerably lower. That's why I'd care.

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    • Originally posted by SJ View Post

      I don’t know how many times we need to say that unvaccinated people are less likely to have or transmit Covid. At least one more I guess.
      The latest science doesn't seem to all agree on that though - negligible difference reported in transmission rates between vaccinated and unvaccinated if they contract the delta variant, and the lancet had an article that was reported by other outlets suggesting that in household contacts there is zero difference in transmission rates between unvaccinated people and those who are double jabbed.

      Given our high case numbers - I 'd say two things are definite - first - vaccinated people are transmitting this thing left right and centre. Secondly, the supposed magic shield around schools which somehow prevents transmission is complete shite, and we're sending the kids to little super spreader events on a daily basis.

      I'm sort of at the point where I'm hoping for a large asteroid to hit the planet though and wipe us all out though. It would be less painful than this thing dragging on for another 5 years.
      Last edited by kdevitt; 22-11-2021, 03:44 PM.

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      • There was a massive report based on data from the UK that showed a huge difference in transmission rates between vaccinated and unvaccinated released a few weeks back? Luke O#Neill was discussing it on the PAt Kenny show and saying it finally puts to bed the idea that having diferent approaches to treating vaccinated/unvaccinated were useless as both transmit the sae way was worth doing.

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        • Yes but let's keep the illusion going as it allows the vaccinated to travel without getting tested. I would rather not return to requiring tests if that's possible because it's a serious faff.
          I'm with the resistance

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          • Originally posted by mikerd4 View Post
            There was a massive report based on data from the UK that showed a huge difference in transmission rates between vaccinated and unvaccinated released a few weeks back? Luke O#Neill was discussing it on the PAt Kenny show and saying it finally puts to bed the idea that having diferent approaches to treating vaccinated/unvaccinated were useless as both transmit the sae way was worth doing.
            Was this the Lancet publication?
            https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...648-4/fulltext

            That paper seems to suggest that in the household environment, the secondary attack rate (probability of someone else in the household getting infected) was 25% for vaccinated households vs 38% for unvaccinated households. Not a massive difference on the face of it put applied on a population level it is significant.

            What I found interesting but I suppose quite logical when you look at the data and think about it, was that they found that the risk of transmission to a vaccinated person was similar regardless of whether the "spreader" was vaccinated or unvaccinated. The proposed explanation for this was that transmission occurred during peak viral load and these peak loads are the same if vaccinated or unvaccinated.

            This BMJ article summarises it nicely.
            https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2638

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            • I’m assuming this research takes time since double vaccinated into consideration? Because I believe that has a pretty big impact on likelihood of getting it and passing it on but not that big an impact on reducing likelihood of a poor outcome. Ie antibody defence vs T cell defence.
              I'm with the resistance

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              • I havent read the report, just basing my post on hearing the interview he did about it. He reckoned it was the biggest ever sample size for a study into an infectious disease and that the figures put any doubts to bed as to the impact of vaccination etc Ill have a look at those links, thank you

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                • Originally posted by conneem View Post

                  Was this the Lancet publication?
                  https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...648-4/fulltext

                  That paper seems to suggest that in the household environment, the secondary attack rate (probability of someone else in the household getting infected) was 25% for vaccinated households vs 38% for unvaccinated households. Not a massive difference on the face of it put applied on a population level it is significant.

                  I posted this pages back. Two things - 38% vs 25% is actually a 50% difference. One in four Vs more than one in three.

                  However I don't believe that the sample size was large enough in that study for this difference to be statistically significant so I wouldn't base my conclusions on it.
                  "All the finesse of a badger." (cdiv)

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                  • Originally posted by deltona View Post

                    *Fixed that for you, before some people find it confusing.
                    Thanks Deltona
                    "All the finesse of a badger." (cdiv)

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                    • But not exactly significant enough to separate the very few unvaccinated from the rest of mankind. It's a complete irrelevance in the real world with 94% vaccinated. The phase of the moon and the direction of the wind are probably about as important. But let's keep the illusions going like I said seeing as they bring some convenience. I suspect hospitality don't mind it either as it gives their customers the sense that it's very safe to go out to a restaurant etc.
                      I'm with the resistance

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                      • Originally posted by DMZ View Post
                        But not exactly significant enough to separate the very few unvaccinated from the rest of mankind. It's a complete irrelevance in the real world with 94% vaccinated. The phase of the moon and the direction of the wind are probably about as important. But let's keep the illusions going like I said seeing as they bring some convenience. I suspect hospitality don't mind it either as it gives their customers the sense that it's very safe to go out to a restaurant etc.
                        You're looking at it from the perspective of a vaccinated person. Unvaccinated meeting other unvaccinated is the big problem -that drives bad outcomes.
                        "All the finesse of a badger." (cdiv)

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                        • Originally posted by SJ View Post

                          You're looking at it from the perspective of a vaccinated person. Unvaccinated meeting other unvaccinated is the big problem -that drives bad outcomes.
                          Does it really though SJ?

                          When making that statement are you taking into account that a huge proportion of vaccinated and unvaccinated alike, have already had covid and have antibodies and therefore natural immunity regardless of their vaccination status.

                          This is not a pro or anti vax sentiment. As actually I am pro vax, and absolutely pro personal choice. I am anti bs, however (not implying you are btw, but I feel there is plenty of it around that should be challenged and dissected)

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                          • Originally posted by el_marko View Post

                            Does it really though SJ?

                            When making that statement are you taking into account that a huge proportion of vaccinated and unvaccinated alike, have already had covid and have antibodies and therefore natural immunity regardless of their vaccination status.

                            This is not a pro or anti vax sentiment. As actually I am pro vax, and absolutely pro personal choice. I am anti bs, however (not implying you are btw, but I feel there is plenty of it around that should be challenged and dissected)
                            For clarity, I would count anyone who has had covid in the past 9 months as equivalent to a vaccinated person.
                            "All the finesse of a badger." (cdiv)

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                            • Originally posted by mikerd4 View Post
                              I havent read the report, just basing my post on hearing the interview he did about it. He reckoned it was the biggest ever sample size for a study into an infectious disease and that the figures put any doubts to bed as to the impact of vaccination etc Ill have a look at those links, thank you
                              I don't know report what Luke O'Neill is referring to - I change channel once I see his mug appear - but I suspect a lot of the older studies are practically worthless now as they were primarily based on alpha and beta strains, whereas delta seems to be significantly more tricky. I think it'll become clearer over the next few months.





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                              • Originally posted by SJ View Post

                                For clarity, I would count anyone who has had covid in the past 9 months as equivalent to a vaccinated person.
                                If you've had covid and then got vaccinated later, there's a chance you may become super-immune to a wide range of Coronaviruses. Now I don't think this means it's a good idea to actually try get Covid, then vaccinated, because you've no idea how that'll pan out and no, what doesn't kill you doesn't make you stronger, but it could lead to some better treatments/vaccines that could protect us against even future pandemics if we can figure out the mechanism.

                                COVID super-immunity: one of the pandemic’s great puzzles (nature.com)

                                https://www.instagram.com/diecast_1_64/

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