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Covid-19 Pandemic - The New Hope

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  • It would be nice though if, to the extent that these seemingly valid points form part of the reasoning, NPHET would say so. We do need a cogent explanation now to be onside with the continuation of restrictions. Not just scary numbers plucked from the ether without any explanation. This is why I was speculating, clearly wrongly, that this might be to do with ICU beds - because there has been no proper explanation. If there is one, apologies, I have missed it and it hasn't been reported.
    sigpichttps://mingshitters.wordpress.com/

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    • I don't think ICU beds are that difficult to add when it's all said and done. And I'd be surprised if there will even be all that much ICU to worry about. But then I'm not in NPHET where worrying is obviously game plan 101.

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      • I'm registered for the vaccine and waiting to get it so in no way anti vax in all of this. However, I totally disagree with only opening services up to those that are vaccinated. This creates a system whereby choice is effectively removed if you want to go back to normal life.

        My in laws have been very anti government in all of this. The regularly share links on our family groups citing conspiracies etc and it wrecks my head. But this current stance gives validation to some things they have said (in their minds at least). NPHET are not helping anyone with the abundance of caution at this stage. The numbers reported seem ludacris.

        At what stage do we start determine the risk of the virus to be acceptable??

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        • Originally posted by DMZ View Post
          I don't think ICU beds are that difficult to add when it's all said and done. And I'd be surprised if there will even be all that much ICU to worry about. But then I'm not in NPHET where worrying is obviously game plan 101.
          They're really hard to add. You can add them temporarily by diluting the contingent of ICU nurses, and with overtime, etc, but that's not sustainable. It's an 18 month pathway to certify new ICU nurses and they're in fairly high demand globally. We also get into disputes over what is an "ICU bed" versus a high dependency bed, etc, depending on how many qualified staff are assigned to that bed.

          Anyway, fair to say I'm not thrilled at the situation.
          "All the finesse of a badger." (cdiv)

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          • If in fact this is about fear of ICU beds, I'd be grateful if someone would admit it. Or else give us some sort of explanation why it is worse here than everywhere else. I've been skeptical/critical (which one is entitled to be) but prepared to broadly stay on message as hey I'm not the expert in all this. Now I feel the truth is just not being shared and I have lost a bit of trust in the experts who seem to be directing us/government (as opposed to experts whose advice is being considered).
            sigpichttps://mingshitters.wordpress.com/

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            • I'm assuming the idea is to prevent people getting into ICU irrespective of hard or otherwise it is to add new beds. Seeing as it's not a gentle ride for the patient once it gets to that level.

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              • Even the most cautious has to question that model (they have form on this, see March '21) and their opposition to antigen testing.

                Why are we so totally out of step to the rest of western Europe?
                1998 Porsche 911 3.4 Carrera 2 (996)
                2000 Mazda MX-5 1.8 Jasper Conran #68/400
                2003 BMW 325i E46 Sport Touring


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                • I think the amount of people who are just going to ignore this and future advice is growing by the hour.

                  Also agree with that Flet, why the seemingly complete distrust of antigen testing by NPHET?

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                  • Well that's that.

                    I find the hard opposition from NPHET to antigen testing very odd - I have x5 boxes of free NHS provided test kits (with 7 tests in each) sat in the cupboard, as they were practically throwing them at you during my last visit to the UK.

                    I fully appreciate they're not as accurate as a PCR test, but if I'm meeting friends / the in-laws and likely to be in their houses, I can self-test and return a result in 30 mins - It's better than nothing, and they're actively encouraging people over there to self-test twice a week as part of their controls.

                    I also stupidly booked a ferry at the weekend from Dublin to France for late August (me & the missus will be fully jabbed and hopefully in receipt of our EU digital travel certs by then), but I noticed this little gem on the RTE/ Pravda website: "Current government advice is to avoid non-essential international travel. Depending on the prevailing public health situation at the time, Ireland will operate the EU Digital COVID Certificate (DCC) for travel originating within the EU/EEA from 19 July".

                    What's the bets NPHET will block fully vaccinated travel due to 'growing concern' and a risk to our 'tremendous progress' from the 'clearly more transmissible' Delta variant (or whatever the variant of concern is in a couple of months)?

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                    • I can't honestly see how NPHET, or the government for that matter, will allow anyone to go off to some crazy place where every detail of your life isn't micro managed by civil servants and have some fun while the rest sit in the land of fear and misery and look at tables of the number of infected and wonder what they will be able to do next week. Obviously justified with some variant of concern or whatever. It ain't happening, trust me on that.

                      I'm assuming the problem with the antigen testing is that it's inaccurate and gives people a false sense of security. I don't know if I have much of a problem with that stance tbh. I think plow on with vaccinations and be a bit more flexible re restrictions and let's not waste time on testing and complex entry mechanisms to pubs that will just create a two-tier society. But then again I haven't been to Denmark (yet) so I haven't seen it in person. I guess they're the masters of this strategy.

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                      • It's the question Flet asks that bugs me: "Why are we so totally out of step to the rest of western Europe?"

                        I need an explanation. I really do. We all do. Otherwise it is just trust us because we are experts who know best.
                        sigpichttps://mingshitters.wordpress.com/

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                        • In the interests of truth, here are the facts around indoor dining elsewhere:
                          https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-...alls-1.4606765

                          It's not exactly a free-for-all. I'm still not sure why it's such a big deal for people who don't own restaurants...
                          "All the finesse of a badger." (cdiv)

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                          • Originally posted by SJ View Post
                            In the interests of truth, here are the facts around indoor dining elsewhere:
                            https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-...alls-1.4606765

                            It's not exactly a free-for-all. I'm still not sure why it's such a big deal for people who don't own restaurants...
                            Fair enough. What's wrong with saying we will do something similar? As opposed to "there will be an apocalypse if we allow indoors dining" but NPHET is not opposed in a fundamentalist way to allowing vaccinated people to dine indoors (subtext - on an apartheid basis).
                            sigpichttps://mingshitters.wordpress.com/

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                            • I think what you mean is, why wasn't something similar thought of a month ago with preparation in full swing by now to enable it by the 5th of July? Instead of talking about it on the 29th of June as maybe something that could possibly be done by some indeterminate date.

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                              • I can't imagine Charlie, or even Bertie, genuflecting to the every whim of the CMO in the same manner in which MM is doing, there really doesn't seem to be any resistance NPHET's recommendations or unverified modelling from within either Government or Opposition, sad really

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