Brexit Part II: Border Harder

[Cold]

He resigned because of the Covid restrictions. NI is going to be an endless journey like it always has been. I don’t think anyone [in England] cares enough about it to resign.

The Christmas lockdown will be interesting for Boris. His loyal supporters like Frost are Covid denier sorts and the rebels are generally ok with lockdowns if they’re needed. But Covid tends to have its own ideas and transcends political views so I suspect it will be about some misstep or another. Because so much of English politics is in dream land these days it’s hard to know what craziness is next tbh.

[foyler]

Well if covid gives us nothing but the demise of the 2 blond divisive goons, then at least that’s something….

[Murakami]

Well, the responsibility for Brexit has apparently been folded into the Foreign Office remit, which on the surface seems relatively sensible, until you realise Liz Truss will be the new negotiator.

edit to say this is incorrect. She has been appointed Brexit Minister.

[fortytwo]

On one hand, she was a very strong remainer, who li kes to announce deals and loves a good photo op. On the other hand, it's brexit, and normal rules dont apply. Wonder how much of it was Boris throwing a hospital pass to a potential leadership challenger.

[Bunk]

On one hand, she was a very strong remainer, who li kes to announce deals and loves a good photo op. On the other hand, it's brexit, and normal rules dont apply. Wonder how much of it was Boris throwing a hospital pass to a potential leadership challenger.

Frost was also a remainer, and Boris has a habit of appointing people who are willing to abandon all their prinicples for personal gain. I see Frost in the "rats deserting a sinking ship" category personally.

[Murakami]

She definitely likes to make grandiose announcements which are neatly followed by a gaff of some kind, be it Scottish trade figures or cheese sales, but she does seem to be some people’s choice for possible new leader. Sunak seems to have fallen behind her in estimation. Pretty good for someone who managed to survive an affair scandal way back in 2006. Pretty sure that’ll come up again. They really seemed to put so much on her as a new type of Tory, youngest MP in the parliament when first elected, working mother, etc. She’s managed to sleaze it up like the rest of her brethren since.

[Flet]

While I think that Sunak is very much on top of his brief as Chancellor of the Exchequer and a very capable performer in parliament my money would be on Michael Gove as next Tory leader. He's smart, self-made, not an Old Etonian but is very much Thatcherite. As a result he leans just right enough, was a Brexiteer and had a previous run at the top role after Cameron resigned. He was quite good (IMHO) as Education Minister, then as Justice Secretary and whatever he did under May (was it Food/Environment?). To me he stands out as a very strong member of the currently not very strong British Cabinet.

[Murakami]

Gove as Tory leader would make for some serious issues in NI.

[Flet]

That it could

[Murakami]

No, it definitely would, his paper “The Price of Peace” makes his opinions on the place of Northern Ireland in the Union very clear, as well as his fundamental opposition to the peace process. He’s tried to whitewash the extremity of those views since, but they’re there for the reading.

And let’s be honest here, Sunak would need to ramp up to the race traitor rhetoric of Priti Patel before the party faithful overlooked his skin colour to put him in the most powerful position in the country.

[Flet]

I read The Price of Peace back when he started to become more prominent and as Brexit advanced. In retrospect it's a bit of a mad rant of a document and he seems to have distanced himself from it since. I remember reading the line about 'denial about national integrity' with a wry smile and thinking that this is exactly what Boris Johnson will be remembered for, the PM that didn't protect his national integrity.

With all that in mind I don't think Gove's viewpoints are too different to non-GFA supporting Unionists or members of the Conservative party. The stuff he wrote about trans rights, womens rights and the rights of less able people is completely bananas. But, incidentally I have a couple of friends who are London based and are card-carrying Tories. Their point of view, and the view they hear echoed in the drinking dens they frequent is that sacrificing NI into a UI was or is a price worth paying for Brexit. It's a simplistic view but one that seems to have some traction and it's that sort of thought process that makes me wonder if Gove could figuratively turn back the clock even if he wanted. He certainly doesn't seem able to keep the Scottish Independence campaign in the jar.

[Cold]

As far as I can work out, the only reason Northern Ireland features at all is that Brexiteers need something to blame and Northern Ireland conveniently involves the EU. There is this realisation of late that Brexit has achieved nothing positive and therefore it’s back to blaming the EU and making a big song and dance about it. It’s the usual crackpot stuff. I’m not sure I would spend much energy on it.

Another common one at the moment is how brilliant it was to leave the EU so that the UK could adopt its own Covid strategy. Ignoring perhaps that every EU country has its own strategy as that’s decided by member states.

[Murakami]

I read The Price of Peace back when he started to become more prominent and as Brexit advanced. In retrospect it's a bit of a mad rant of a document and he seems to have distanced himself from it since. I remember reading the line about 'denial about national integrity' with a wry smile and thinking that this is exactly what Boris Johnson will be remembered for, the PM that didn't protect his national integrity.

With all that in mind I don't think Gove's viewpoints are too different to non-GFA supporting Unionists or members of the Conservative party. The stuff he wrote about trans rights, womens rights and the rights of less able people is completely bananas. But, incidentally I have a couple of friends who are London based and are card-carrying Tories. Their point of view, and the view they hear echoed in the drinking dens they frequent is that sacrificing NI into a UI was or is a price worth paying for Brexit. It's a simplistic view but one that seems to have some traction and it's that sort of thought process that makes me wonder if Gove could figuratively turn back the clock even if he wanted. He certainly doesn't seem able to keep the Scottish Independence campaign in the jar.

I take your point, he has been actively supporting the necessity of the Protocol in the face of DUP opposition, so maybe his conversion is real.

Comments like those you mention re a UI is easier said as a non-policy maker in fairness. But again, take your point.

[Flet]

With that said I don’t want to go all in Freestater and be seen to dismiss your concerns out of hand or want to be seen to explain your own point of view back to you. I try and be careful with that.

I see Gove’s document as an early rewrite of the post-GFA history. Back then the discourse - as I recall it - was along the lines of a military stalemate, a drift toward the political in the Loyalist and Republican movement and a general sense of it being the right thing to do in London and Dublin.

20+ years on the re-definition by all actors continues on a wide number of stages (far too broad to expand on in this post) and I’d see Gove’s document in that light. Re-reading elements of the document I don’t see fundamental differences on the constitutional elements that I have not heard anti-GFA unionists express privately.

As you say there is the likelihood of Rishi Sunak or even Priti Patel not being palatable to the British Herrenfolk but that’s up to them to decide. As an oul leftie I always try and judge people on their merit and I won’t stoop to their level. I think Rishi Sunak would make a fine Tory leader or UKPM.

[mikerd4]

People seem to think the Tories or any English person cares about ni. They really couldn't care less. The Tories would sell their mothers if it meant more power. They only care about NI when it affects them.

I said it a long time ago, the Tories will happily jettison NI if it gets them the Brexit they want. That doesn't mean a united Ireland but it's the biggest stumbling block to Brexit as the gfa is pretty much stopping brexit