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Killarney Historics this weekend

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  • #16
    .
    looking back now, I think that maybe, every now and again, I should have braked a little earlier

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    • #17
      Impressive photos
      I'm with the resistance

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      • #18
        What qualifies a historic? Are they works cars or pre... 90s or what?

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        • #19
          There are specific requirements, basically they have to run to the homologated spec when they were in championship format.
          So leaf springs on the mk2s, no sequential boxes, no modern ECUs, heck they even have to use proper old style brass radiators rather than alloy ones. Brakes would be a lot smaller than newer built, non historic cars. Same with body panels, if they were steel on the original rally cars, they have to be steel on the Historics for example.
          Safety equipment such as roll cages and extinguishers would be to modern specification, though the roll cages still tend to be simpler than cars built for non-historic.
          And Naturally, there would be no "foreign" engine swaps, all the Escorts would have Pinto, Crossflow or BDAs, the Ae86s would all have 4AGES and so on.

          If a car had a simple Damper in period, then it would have to use the same style now, so none of the historic Escorts for example would have remote canister shocks. I think the rules are even strict on things like the style of Top mounts used, all so that the cars look, sound, and go like they did when they were new builds.

          Apparently it's also to help control costs, but if you have say a classic e30 M3 that keeps blowing gearboxes, you'd have to keep finding or repairing original ones, rather than be allowed to fit a Hollinger or Samsonas for example.

          And similarly, the likes of Ray Breens Legacy would be turned out like when Bertie Fisher rallied his, the Minis would all have A series engines with 4 speed boxes and so on.

          Also, it depends on which class you enter, whether it was Group 2 (precursor to Gpn N, showroom class) or Group 4, for example. Group 4 having a lot more "mods" than Grp2, but still nothing that wasn't in period.



          www.PatHoranMotors.com

          E39 M5, Mk2 GTI, Mk1 GTI, E30, Caddy vanyadda yadda

          Stupid questions are better than stupid mistakes.

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          • #20
            Good info! You can tell that the suspension is ancient, which must be a tad challenging on those roads.
            I'm with the resistance

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            • #21
              Thanks Trstan,

              is there a an age of car limit? Pre 90s or???

              I didnt check the entry list but the scooby legacy might have a production run until 94 I think, Is there any thing entered newer than that?

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              • #22
                That Legacy is unreal, watched a few videos of it passing through on full chat and its as every bit as nice as the M3....

                Ive already marked my calendar for next year, NOT missing out again on this. Make a weekend of it in Killarney I think.

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                • #23
                  Iirc it has to be 30 years old. The legacy was the newest. There were 2 lovely ones.
                  Sadly only one finished in a lovely state.
                  www.PatHoranMotors.com

                  E39 M5, Mk2 GTI, Mk1 GTI, E30, Caddy vanyadda yadda

                  Stupid questions are better than stupid mistakes.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by DMZ View Post
                    Good info! You can tell that the suspension is ancient, which must be a tad challenging on those roads.
                    Not necessarily. I was talking to breen at scrutiny on Friday, and he said he said the handling and braking of a historic spec group 4 car is phenomenal, and so much nicer than any modified car. He said he would be quicker in a historic car than a modified car if he was more used to it. The only real pain is no power steering.

                    Bear in mind he and Rob duggan in historic cars beat Gary kiernan in 2019 in an ultimate spec modified car with probably 100 bhp more and a samsonas flat shift.

                    A historic car will have 270ish bhp and a 5 speed ZF which has to be nursed into gear.

                    The strictness of the rules is essential to making what it is , which is fantastic.

                    The historic cars cannot even use digital dash clocks, and even things that would be boarder line would be frowned upon by other competitors if used.

                    Last edited by Mark2; 29-11-2021, 10:07 AM.
                    looking back now, I think that maybe, every now and again, I should have braked a little earlier

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                    • #25
                      Well on this occasion we will take the words of a WRC works driver over mine, lol. Seriously, though, they looked unsettled over the bumps. Which adds some excitement too of course.
                      I'm with the resistance

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Smokey Bear View Post

                        service is off limits, we’re heading to

                        51°57'32.2"N 9°37'04.1"W
                        https://goo.gl/maps/A8KySNfDTeAQ2neQA

                        Planning on getting blocked in until 2:30, bringing a camp stove so your welcome to land on for tea and sausage sandos. Will be on the gap at 7:00 to beat road closed at 7:30.
                        Only seeing this now, and funnily enough that's the same spot we were hoping to park up too and get blocked in for the day, but there was no spaces when we passed at 7:05 ... got a nice spot at Ladies' View though and walked up to a couple corners. Could have used the tea and sausages as it was f**kin baltic ha. Great days rallying though! The noise off Breen's m3 was something else, it could be heard leaving Muckross house from 4 or 5mins before it even reached us at the view! Savage stuff

                        Surprised how big a turnout that was there! We were staying in a B&B up near the gap of dunloe, so traveled up that back way to Molls Gap in the morning and down to ladies view then. Couldn't get over the sheer volume of cars coming against us making their way up to the gap! Especially since the Gap wasn't the best place to be this weekend as the stage was heading out towards Sneem instead of the usual left turn to Kenmare.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Smythy411 View Post

                          Only seeing this now, and funnily enough that's the same spot we were hoping to park up too and get blocked in for the day, but there was no spaces when we passed at 7:05 ... got a nice spot at Ladies' View though and walked up to a couple corners. Could have used the tea and sausages as it was f**kin baltic ha. Great days rallying though! The noise off Breen's m3 was something else, it could be heard leaving Muckross house from 4 or 5mins before it even reached us at the view! Savage stuff

                          Surprised how big a turnout that was there! We were staying in a B&B up near the gap of dunloe, so traveled up that back way to Molls Gap in the morning and down to ladies view then. Couldn't get over the sheer volume of cars coming against us making their way up to the gap! Especially since the Gap wasn't the best place to be this weekend as the stage was heading out towards Sneem instead of the usual left turn to Kenmare.
                          yeah thats why i went to the start line of Molls gap (Which is a fantastic experience) you get to see all the cars up close, warming tyres and brakes, listening to all the drivers nervous banter, its a great atmosphere at the start of an SS1, especially at the Gap, we then headed in to service and then to SS6. it was a very difficult loop from a spectators perspective.

                          Ive some great videos, il upload them to youtube later and post them here

                          looking back now, I think that maybe, every now and again, I should have braked a little earlier

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by miller View Post
                            That Legacy is unreal, watched a few videos of it passing through on full chat and its as every bit as nice as the M3....

                            Ive already marked my calendar for next year, NOT missing out again on this. Make a weekend of it in Killarney I think.

                            That's it, my era of cars are turning historic now. I'm really looking forward to the next ten years down there

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                            • #29

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Mark2 View Post
                                Not necessarily. I was talking to breen at scrutiny on Friday, and he said he said the handling and braking of a historic spec group 4 car is phenomenal, and so much nicer than any modified car. He said he would be quicker in a historic car than a modified car if he was more used to it. The only real pain is no power steering.

                                Bear in mind he and Rob duggan in historic cars beat Gary kiernan in 2019 in an ultimate spec modified car with probably 100 bhp more and a samsonas flat shift.

                                A historic car will have 270ish bhp and a 5 speed ZF which has to be nursed into gear.

                                The strictness of the rules is essential to making what it is , which is fantastic.

                                The historic cars cannot even use digital dash clocks, and even things that would be boarder line would be frowned upon by other competitors if used.
                                That's interesting. why is it that the grp4 historics are so competive with the modifieds which on paper would appear vastly superior? is it weight? or are the modifieds just not able to put the extra power down?

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