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Pound of Flesh - OMSP

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  • #16
    When i appealed back in 2008/2009 you had to pay the VRT up front before you could appeal. €6k paid over but i got back €2k i think, iirc i went with differences in prices in Japan/UK and spec differences. I think if you have a reasonable appeal they will refund you but if like that M3 you made a poor one they dont. I cant understand why he's comparing a Z4m to a M3 just because it was still on the VRT calculator and then submitting market values in excess of the OMSP he paid! He's lucky they didn't charge him more!

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    • #17
      A guy I know won a car in a raffle in the UK - it is quite a special modified car, and is over 30 YO, so no import duty and only €200 VRT.
      However, he has been informed that he has to pay full VAT on the OMSP - the car is probably worth about €50k, so this is not an insignificant amount of cash. I know it will still be a cheap car, but is it right to have to pay VAT when all he bought is a ticket...?

      Sent from my SM-A515F using Tapatalk

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      • #18
        I can’t think of anyway out of it, but there’s smarter more tax knowledgeable folk here that probably have a get out clause on competition rules or such, but to me, they have us over a barrel, at least he’s quids in despite feeling like he’s being robbed and thankfully they aren’t adding duty to the vat bill.
        I’m standing in a field full of sheep, is it wrong that I feel aroused?? 🤨🤪

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        • #19
          Originally posted by 911 SC Cab View Post
          A guy I know won a car in a raffle in the UK - it is quite a special modified car, and is over 30 YO, so no import duty and only €200 VRT.
          However, he has been informed that he has to pay full VAT on the OMSP - the car is probably worth about €50k, so this is not an insignificant amount of cash. I know it will still be a cheap car, but is it right to have to pay VAT when all he bought is a ticket...?

          Sent from my SM-A515F using Tapatalk
          I always thought it was the price paid was what the VAT was calculated off for second hand items. In which cash he has an invoice for the ticket and that’s what he produces for the purchase price?


          Poor punctuation and spelling via iPhone keyboard & odd words here and there via autocorrect

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Jimmy Taybag View Post
            Plenty more VRT cases here: https://www.taxappeals.ie/en/determinations

            I had a Revenue appointed assessor inspect my car to review the OMSP prior to paying the VRT last week. Didn't make much difference to the OMSP but as part of the process I got my hands on their valuation data: comprising 3 random dealer cars on GooNet screenshotted on to a page

            If I don't get a fair outcome from the written appeal, you'll see a fresh VRT case determination in the link above in a few months
            The most ridiculous thing you can read there is that ppl have to appeal when they genuinely move countries and bring their own vehicle to Ireland. There is a case there when a doctor moved from UK to Ireland and have to appeal VRT for their Volvo XC60... They are really doing everything in their power to make the process as complicated as possible to make as much money as possible on that VRT tax.
            Any car that merely takes you from A-B does not go far enough.

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            • #21
              Well it looks like I will be having my day out with the Tax Appeal Commissioner.

              After paying the VRT a few months back I got a file together and did the Stage 1 appeal. This included a 2 page cover letter (resisting any urge to tell them it's a sham tax etc) and 8 or 9 supporting documents including 3 x dealer valuations, a 10 page insurance assessor report/valuation on the car and various Irish and Japanese market data. All consistently valuing the car between 35-45% of Revenue’s assessment. In my case they took all of 5 working hours to issue a flat rejection.

              Remarkable efficiency right? And proper order too… Except I have the pleasure of dealing daily with Revenue via MyEnquiries for routine client tax queries and often a 5 minute task at their end to update an address or reassign a tax payment to a different tax head can take up to 2 weeks of prodding and follow ups. Read of that efficiency what you will.

              Anyway i lodged the Stage 2 'notice of appeal' to the TAC and I got the nod today to submit my Statement of case. I wont be sharing specifics ahead of the hearing (which might take months) but I’ll share a link to my very own determination when the time comes.

              In the meantime here’s one of the better VRT ones from a guy with an RS4 who put together a reasonable case and got his OMSP down from €28k to €21k at Stage 1, then down to €15k with the Appeal Commissioner.
              https://www.taxappeals.ie/en/determi...52tacd2021-vrt

              Last edited by Jimmy Taybag; 18-01-2022, 10:24 PM. Reason: typo

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              • #22
                Nice. Just shows how rotten and unfair they are. Good luck with yours.
                sigpichttps://mingshitters.wordpress.com/

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                • #23
                  Fair play, I’m surprised more people don’t go the distance, well worth it in some instances.

                  good luck with it in any case

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                  • #24
                    Best of luck with your stage 2, shame the stage 2 is a tax appeal, but hopefully it comes good and will lead to some stage 2 mods
                    I’m standing in a field full of sheep, is it wrong that I feel aroused?? 🤨🤪

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                    • #25
                      Best of luck with your case Jimmy,I wonder would it set something of a precedent for the whole infuriating system.

                      Sometimes it seems you have to be of a certain personality type to work in that area of Government,fairness is well down the list of qualities unfortunately.

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                      • #26
                        Best of luck Jimmy.

                        I am also prepping a stage one appeal. I have done everything you have mentioned also. I have one question though regarding valuations.

                        I found SOLD prices for Japanese auction cars the same as mine. As a worked example I have added customs duty and vat to 'build' an 'at arms length' OMSP. I have resisted adding VRT to the OMSP as it the OMSP I am using to determine my VRT amount. Because that would be double taxation!

                        And when my stage one appeal gets thrown out that will be the basis of my stage two.

                        Would others be thinking along similar lines?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Titan View Post
                          Best of luck with your case Jimmy,I wonder would it set something of a precedent for the whole infuriating system.
                          Yeah I'm happy to pay my fair share, but ignoring the legality of the tax it really feels somewhere between lazy and unscrupulous how they go about the business of assessing it sometimes.

                          If it helped anyone I could pull together a template at then end of the process that might help others navigate the TAC forms at least

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by R32 View Post
                            Best of luck Jimmy.

                            I am also prepping a stage one appeal. I have done everything you have mentioned also. I have one question though regarding valuations.

                            I found SOLD prices for Japanese auction cars the same as mine. As a worked example I have added customs duty and vat to 'build' an 'at arms length' OMSP. I have resisted adding VRT to the OMSP as it the OMSP I am using to determine my VRT amount. Because that would be double taxation!

                            And when my stage one appeal gets thrown out that will be the basis of my stage two.

                            Would others be thinking along similar lines?
                            If you were to use your worked example there you would need to add the VRT to arrive at OMSP. Double tax it most definitely is but that's the way they assess it.

                            ​​​

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                            • #29
                              It is double taxation and the constant re-circulation of incremental increases I would think is the basis of a strong case against the current system or at least the mechanism of arriving at OMSP.
                              That mechanism seems to be unknown unless the figures of a particular model are stated.

                              Would that be another seperate battle via freedom of information I wonder?

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Jimmy Taybag View Post

                                If you were to use your worked example there you would need to add the VRT to arrive at OMSP. Double tax it most definitely is but that's the way they assess it.

                                ​​​
                                im not sure that’s true, if you pay omsp for a car you imported, they will still want their pound of flesh, so as I mentioned earlier, does that then create a new omsp??

                                I’m standing in a field full of sheep, is it wrong that I feel aroused?? 🤨🤪

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