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  • #76
    This would be good for a new thread! Interesting tangent. Very similar to watches: "I only like makers that make their own movements...."


    For me it boils down to:

    Wooo, a bespoke engine in a car that costs xxxxx that I will never ever afford to buy, and never afford the specialised frequent expensive servicing. I just drool over it in books and diagrams.

    Or,

    Woo, a sports car that is gorgeous than only costs xx, so when it comes in as a Jap import in a few years second hand, I could actually save and buy one...maybe...

    And 400bhp, that would do me nicely!


    And to me in this category of car for where I am in life, it is a bonus that it is a humdrum engine. No specialised £10k head jobs at 100k miles, just drop it around to xx my local mechanic and he will service it. That means that you can actually fully use the engine and not be afraid of it being a new mortgage if it ever breaks. You may even be lucky and pull a new lump out of a scrap yard. Bonus! Real world useability.

    We all stood around in a circle naked, thrusting our clinched fists in the air screaming "Jap Power!!"

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    • #77
      There's a middle ground though - you can take a generic engine and mildly improve it, which can make all the difference. A Lotus Twin Cam is basically a Ford block with a Lotus head for example/

      It's a fascinating discussion, but at the end of the day, a fairly subjective one too. An engine one person loves might leave another person cold.
      https://www.instagram.com/diecast_1_64/

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      • #78
        These are all very conceptual and theoretical thoughts. If you compare the motor in the Z to some of the best and non-generic V6s (turbocharged, supercharged or naturally aspirated) that we had 20 or 30 years ago then it would wipe the floor with them in every single respect.

        So then you have to wonder, is it being called generic in a derogatory sense just because turbocharged V6s are normal these days or because it has shortcomings as an engine that make it unremarkable? If it is the latter then that is a fine discussion point but if it is the former then it is a discussion without merit.

        The point on Lotus brought up earlier I also don’t understand. So if the Toyota V6 is/was apparently a mediocre choice then what about the i4 Toyota motors that they were also fitted with or the Rover K-Series before them. If the V6 is mediocre or generic then it stands to reason that the engines that came before it were equally so (if not more so). If people have been buying and raving about Lotus cars even when they were fitted with “generic” and seemingly uninteresting engines, then surely the fact that the engine is generic (whatever that actually means in this context) doesn’t matter one bit?

        Also before somebody points it out, yes old V6s or V8s running on carbs may sound sweet and have lots of “character” but at the expensive of usability, reliability and efficiency so I’m not going to count it as an overall positive
        Last edited by Ryan; 19-08-2021, 04:36 PM.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Ryan View Post
          These are all very conceptual and theoretical thoughts.
          Yup, as I said, a fun discussion, but subjective

          Originally posted by Ryan View Post
          Also before somebody points it out, yes old V6s or V8s running on carbs may sound sweet and have lots of “character” but at the expensive of usability, reliability and efficiency so I’m not going to count it as an overall positive
          Yup again.

          Carbs are a pain in the hoop, and you'd better learn to tune them yourself because you won't find many people to do it now. It is mad to think they were still in use on some earlu 90s Hondas, even in some cases with VTEC. Talk about a mishmash of old and new. Took longer to phase out on motorycles, there might even be the odd one in some markets.

          There's a few things we might miss about older cars, but carbs and chokes ain't one of em!

          I mean it's nice to experience an old car, fully period correct as an experience in itself, I'd love to try some properly old stuff like from the 1900s and stuff out of mechanical curiousity, but I'm still not going to defend carbs vs. a good EFI system.

          Then again - as modern pressures mounted in terms of nth degree emissions standards, you see things like direct injection, which brought its own downsides and in some cases that had to supplement it with port injection again to prevent engines coking up. Not every step forward is a step forward, sometimes you gotta go sideways for a bit.
          https://www.instagram.com/diecast_1_64/

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          • #80
            Originally posted by markcro View Post
            This would be good for a new thread! Interesting tangent. Very similar to watches: "I only like makers that make their own movements...."


            For me it boils down to:

            Wooo, a bespoke engine in a car that costs xxxxx that I will never ever afford to buy, and never afford the specialised frequent expensive servicing. I just drool over it in books and diagrams.

            Or,

            Woo, a sports car that is gorgeous than only costs xx, so when it comes in as a Jap import in a few years second hand, I could actually save and buy one...maybe...

            And 400bhp, that would do me nicely!

            This is the essence of the Z right here - an affordable, fun sports car. This isn't about handbuilt, bespoke engines. The VR30DDTT engine is supposed to be a bit decent engine capable of handing extra power.

            It looks like the Z is have the same Z34 chassis code as the 370z, it will also have the same 6 speed box (also with downshift revmatching) - so not a lot of complete redesign - but I guess given there is a hint of 370z it will also have some 350z DNA there too, which is a good thing. There trims available at launch - sport and performance. The performance trim will have a mechanical limited slip differential rather than the usual viscous so that could make things quite interesting.

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            • #81
              If older Nissans are anything to go by, the mechanical LSD will be essential. Those viscous LSD always crap out over time - probably not early enough to make a difference to the first owner, but anyone buying a used one will want the mechanical, so if it's not too insanely priced an option, it will probably help resale value.
              https://www.instagram.com/diecast_1_64/

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              • #82
                Lads what are we gonna debate about when it's all electric? Do electric motors have any kind of personality to them?
                Comic Sans, the choice of the professional.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by zero86r View Post
                  Lads what are we gonna debate about when it's all electric? Do electric motors have any kind of personality to them?
                  Single gear vs. two speed transmission vs eCVT?
                  Permanent magnet vs induction magnet motor?

                  Don't you worry, car nerds will always find something to argue about on the internet.
                  https://www.instagram.com/diecast_1_64/

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                  • #84
                    I can just see electrical engineers rubbing their hands with glee at what is about to unfold over the next few years.

                    Some people cant stand car bores....that will be nothing compared to lads getting into a heated debate about one electric motor having better or worse this or that 😁

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by zero86r View Post
                      Lads what are we gonna debate about when it's all electric? Do electric motors have any kind of personality to them?
                      Their personality is: massive instant shove followed by a gentle fade. It’s sort of like a turbo-charged petrol engine except no lag (this cannot be described in words, it’s like nothing else) and not quite the same flat torque curve. They’re like a turbo-charged engine at 5k rpm I would say. On song but the torque is starting to fade. It then more or less matters how many motors you have. This dictates the power. It’s a strange one because you can feel the front motors kicking in yo even when the rears are not losing traction.

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                      • #86
                        It’ll be more like software engineers mapping and remapping cos if you just gave all the torques instantaneously, fun as it may be, it’ll be undriveable for the masses. But we have a 400hp rwd drive petrol engine enroute and folk are chomping at the bit for it. Long may it last!
                        I’m standing in a field full of sheep, is it wrong that I feel aroused?? 🤨🤪

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                        • #87



                          Broom broom!
                          Last edited by markcro; 20-08-2021, 01:55 PM.
                          We all stood around in a circle naked, thrusting our clinched fists in the air screaming "Jap Power!!"

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            It's a pity it sounds of nothing, as much as you can hear it at all through the soundtrack. I'm nearly tempted to use the word "generic", lol.

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                            • #89
                              Any truth to the rumour that these will be priced @$34k?

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by DMZ View Post
                                I'm nearly tempted to use the word "generic", lol.


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