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Nissan 400Z

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  • #61
    I don’t know if it matters but an often cited reason for Lotus’s inferiority is the Toyota V6 engine which of course is… generic. I have no idea if it’s good or bad tbh but it is a bit of a mark against their cars according to internet wisdom. So I guess there are people who do care about such things.


    • #62
      Maybe, but it does the job and suits the chassis. I'm not gonna get into an argument over personal preferences. If someone thinks it's "meh". then fine.


      • #63
        Funny,the last few Loti I've seen on YouTube I thought the V6 both sounded and went great.

        What they are like to live with though I have no idea.


        • #64
          They have a different problem than Nissan in fairness. They want to charge the premium end of Porsche money for their cars so they get compared with the GT4 and the likes. Nissan is undercutting the Supra so is playing a totally different game. Perhaps a game that I don't care all that much about when it comes to a car that I can't easily buy or drive.


          • #65
            I love cool engines, but I don't mind either way. Just playing devil's advocate as it rules out so many cool makes and cars, especially the small or bespoke makes. Aerial Atom/ Morgan/ Lotus/ TVR/ Ginetta/ Jensen/ Marcos/ De Tomaso/ etc. In fact any thing with a Rover V8/ Ford IL4/V6/V8/ GM V8/ Chrysler V8.

            I was out in a fellows TVR the other month with a "sh1t humdrum pig iron" Ford Essex 3L V6............oh what a sound! It would have given me a horn if I didn't already have one. And it went like stink! Nothing crap about it at all. Humdrum engines in the right setting. (if you can call any 3L engine in Ireland "humdrum"!)
            We all stood around in a circle naked, thrusting our clinched fists in the air screaming "Jap Power!!"


            • #66
              It’s like a discussion about iconic cars, isn’t it? Everyone has their own perception of what makes something amazing or appealing.

              I would maybe say that in the midst of all the history stuff, this is 2021 and we’re in a very different place when it comes to propulsion alternatives. So much so that we can’t even buy the car in question.


              • #67
                Originally posted by DMZ View Post
                Why do you think it’s an exciting engine or does it even matter?

                Sorry I have no opinion on what off the shelf engine they should use. Does Nissan have any that could be described as interesting? Do they even have cars that are interesting?
                Godzilla means nothing to you then, but you’ll laud over McLaren who can’t even build their own engine?? I get what your saying about generic engines but that’s the way of the world now, OEM’s and shareholders want maximum return on investments and as you say, it won’t get more generic than when actual appliance motoring comes. Enjoy whatever generically special motors we can get our hands on, now.

                I’m standing in a field full of sheep, is it wrong that I feel aroused?? 🤨🤪


                • #68
                  Speaking of sticking with the car's history, the original Z was powered by the L20 straight six which was a "generic" powerplant found in a number of Datsun models. That theme continued throughout the line's history and, obviously, included a twin turbo V6 in the past so I don't believe most people will be overly surprised or disappointed with Nissan's engine choice with the 400Z.

                  I do see the appeal in special engines and, recently, have probably been guilty of boring people about the forged internals and trickery in my 308 GTi's powerplant but that wouldn't lead me to dislike something as widely generic as the VAG EA888 lump.

                  I ask this purely out curiosity DMZ, but did your lack of interest in the generic come from your ownership experience of the Golf R?
                  Last edited by ElDel; 19-08-2021, 01:06 PM.


                  • #69
                    I think in fairness VW did a good job on the Golf R engine within its limitations. I don’t know if I would call it generic by my loose definition of generic but is it an exciting engine per se? Hm… probably not. Would I be buying another car like it today? I would not. Do I regret buying it? I do not.

                    Tbh the reason I wrote that by now over-analysed sentence was because I don’t like turbo-charged engines but I gave myself some wiggle room as I think the M2 Comp works well. That’s why I used the word “generic”. That said, I don’t like the Porsche 3l turbo engine or the AMG V8 turbo either and they cannot be described as generic.

                    And it mostly comes from my end of days thinking. 400bhp means nothing now. So if 400bhp means nothing then what actually matters and what is this car/engine going to contribute towards it? We’re slightly over analysing things now but I think very little from what I can see. But I can’t even buy it so not something I spent a lot of time thinking about.


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Bazg2 View Post
                      Godzilla means nothing to you then, but you’ll laud over McLaren who can’t even build their own engine??
                      Most manufacturers end have ended up getting a bit of help from Ricardo over the past 100 years in fairness, they just tend to keep it under their hat.

                      I don't think the GT-R V38DETT is comparable to what will likely end up in the 400z. Not a slight on whatever goes in the 400z, but I believe GT-R engines are pretty much hand built, like proper AMG engines all used to be. Funnily enough it echoes the whole "guess what? factory tweaked engines are often a bit more special than the regular ones! whoda thunk?!"

                      The point about the 2.0 MX5 engine for example, while not hand built, is when the ND MX5 was launched, Mazda didn't really have the budget to do much with the 2 litre engine. It was pretty much the same thing you'd get in a CX5 crossover, designed for the average person that just wants a flexible and economical engine for average driving in a heavier car. After the MX5 was out a while, they got a bit of budget to do the changes DMZ mentioned. It raised the headline power a bit, but more importantly it addressed all those harder to define things that matter in terms of character, like how it revs and breathes. The quality, rather than quantity of the performance, something felt more like it was meant to be in a sports car. It's like flavor when it comes to preparing food, you know it when you taste it.

                      Turbo engines can feel special too of course, absolutely they can, but like with NA engines, making an engine feel great vs just pretty good is about that nth degree level of care.
                      Last edited by crank_case; 19-08-2021, 02:19 PM.


                      • #71
                        I don't think I've lauded over McLarens. This is highly theoretical but I do think the power plant is an issue in those cars. Even McLaren accepts that this is not an area where they can compete so they try to excel in other areas. I would have a Huracan Performante any day of the week, they're OMFG amazing.

                        I don't know, the ND2 2.0 engine... you wouldn't ordinarily wax lyrical about it on the internet, pumping out an amazing 180bhp or whatever it is. It's not going to set the pub conversation on fire I don't think. If you have the opportunity to rev it out, it does like to rev and it has a bit of zing. And it's geared in such a way that getting these opportunities is not that hard even on tight twisty roads. But if someone wants a 400bhp turbo-charged car, this is most definitely not the alternative. It will feel completely dead in comparison. I did note in the company of the 997 C2S that I could keep up-ish to about 120-130km/h or thereabouts, after that good night not a hope, so it's not completely crap. On slow twisty roads I think the MX-5 was faster actually, where it can use its weight advantage. The 997 engine is nicer, though. It's a peach really. Nobody will ever suffer in one of them.


                        • #72
                          It's probably not amazing (not experienced an ND yet sadly), but I believe it's a definite improvement over the earliest ND 2.0s

                          It was always thus with MX5s though, the engines were pretty nice and did the job, but even among 4 bangers there are more special engines.


                          • #73
                            I've driven both NDs, it's a huge improvement. But I would rate Honda's engines higher and there are probably others worthy of a mention also. But ND2 is not bad as these things go.


                            • #74
                              Most cars that we enjoy are “generic” to some degree. Things like the DeTomaso Pantera and Iso Grifo were powered by V8s that you could absolutely call generic due to the origin of their engines but in a way it kind of came to help define those cars in a brutish way.

                              I just think it is a cheap cop out. Like when there is a reviewer who is trying hard to pick something negative to write about and can’t so they make up some conceptual nonsense that has no impact on how the car drives but still uses it as a slight against the car.

                              Here we have Nissan launching their most exciting product in recent years and most likely the last ICE-powered Z (it is just called Z btw and not 400Z), with all of the ingredients to make it an awesome drivers car and that in itself should be applauded. Something like the 300ZX used a similar engine and I don’t recall any contemporary reviews or subsequent ones lamenting the choice of engine in what went on to be one of Nissan’s most iconic cars.

                              The reality is that if the engine powering it negatively affects it because of it being just another V6 with turbos strapped to it then your new alternatives are either that new GR86 that is very slow in comparison or maybe an MX-5 given that lightweight pistons and other light fettling have made an ordinary i4 very interesting according to DMZ. Personally, I think a reasonably lightweight and small coupe with (relatively) high torque and power will add up to a pretty awesome little drivers car and most V6s with a decent exhaust tend to sound quite nice so it has that going for it too.

                              I would still take a Camaro or Mustang over one due to my own personal preferences if given the choice but that doesn’t take away from the Z.


                              • #75
                                [QUOTE=Ryan;n911555]Most cars that we enjoy are “generic” to some degree. Things like the DeTomaso Pantera and Iso Grifo were powered by V8s that you could absolutely call generic due to the origin of their engines but in a way it kind of came to help define those cars in a brutish way.

                                Hey, I'm all for "generic" raiding of the parts bin, it makes stuff economic to make and affordable to buy in the first place and often easier to maintain and fix, and I love the Grifo, absolute dream car.

                                Early Grifos got fairly regular Chevy V8s, but the 7 litre yokes got the Corvette 427 with high lift cams and triple carbs, it wasn't quite yer average truck engine.


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